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Is Nash Hurt or Slowing Down?

I was re-watching that great game against the Celtics and was trying to figure out why the Suns had so many turnovers early in the game. Certainly the Celtics caused many (about half) but there were many that were simply "unforced".

I looked close and noticed something quite disturbing. Many of Nash's passes were off.

Instead of hard crisp passes hitting guys in the hands many were lacking zip. Even the ones that connected seemed to arrive around the knees instead of right in the "shooter's pocket" which we are used to. This meant if he drove the lane and kicked to the open shooter and his pass was low it gave the defense time to recover instead of giving our guy an open shot. This would impact assist numbers.

I seemed to recall seeing this recently and so I decided to go all geek up in here and do some quick analysis.

This chart shows that in 10 out of his last 15 perfomances he has been sub-par in assists and/or turnovers. To me, that's a trend.


Data from basketball-reference.com

In this chart which shows 15 games since Jan 20th, we see the main "zero" line which represents the season average and each data point which shows the deviation from that average.

Nash's average APG is 11.5 so a data point of -2 means that he had two fewer assists in that game. For turnovers I inverted the numbers so that if he had fewer turnovers then the average that data point is shown above the line (because fewer turnovers is better).

All this could mean nothing at all but it certainly jives with my sense that he's not been playing as well of late.

Is he hurt? Tired? Resting?

Inquiring minds want to know.

0 recs  |  Comment 15 comments

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Point production
I'm not much of a numbers guy and Nash has definitely seemed a bit off over the passed couple weeks....

Wouldn't it make sense to look at his point production in the mix as well?  I mean when his assists are down, are his points up? I think many teams have gone with the "make Nash a scorer" philosophy this season, so while his assists are down, he ends up with some high scoring games and maybe forces the issue with his passes causing more turnovers.  

He's averaging around 17 points a game this year I think. How has his point production been over those games you mentioned... could it just be the way the defense is covering him lately?  I wonder if the fact that Marion is longer roaming and cutting and jumping at the rim has cost Steve a few assists. I guess that wouldn't account for the lazy passes though... or the longer trend.

by Travis on Feb 23, 2008 3:41 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Good question
For the season his PPG avg is 17.6 and his avg in these 15 games is up to 19.2. FGA's increased from 12.4 overall up to 13.8 for the 15 game period. His FG% dropped from 50.4% overall to 49.8% for the last 15 games. So in summary more 1.4 more attmpts, .6% lower FG% and about 1.6 more PPG. But I should note that he had two big scoring nights that increased the PPG avg (37 against the Bucks and 32 against the Hornets). If you take those out and the two lowest scoring nights the PPG avg is then 16 for the season and 13.6 for the past 15 games.
Phoenix - where blocks

by Phoenix Stan on Feb 23, 2008 5:08 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

A few theories
Nice work, srp. It sure does seem like the Suns can no longer rely on Nash to play superhero night in, night out (nor do they need to now with Shaq in the house and Amare doing his best MVP impersonation). A few unproven theories, in no particular order, on why this may be:
  1. He's nursing a lingering injury in his shoulder/back/hamstrings/whatever like you suggested. (Time to give Rick Celebrini a call?)
  2. He's taking a mid-season, in-flight "break" to be fresher for the playoffs, and is struggling a bit because it's just not in his nature to go anything less than all out, all the time.
  3. He's finally playing like a 30-year-old instead of a man who stepped back in time 10 years. (He still plays much younger than his age, though).
  4. We underestimated how much the presence of Shawn Marion improved Nash's numbers (although as you pointed out, the "decline" started even before the trade).
  5. Other teams have finally figured out how to play Nash to shut off his penetration, step into passing lanes, etc. (It only took three years).
  6. He's subtly trying to move out of the limelight a little so Amare can move toward center stage, maybe as a partial result of any or all of the above. Again, since not going all out, all the time is not his style, it's not an easy transition to make. (Kind of like the kid with a genius IQ trying to "play dumb" in order to fit in).
My guess is that we're probably seeing the very first signs of a decline that by all medical standards really should have started a long time ago. But Nash at 80% is still better than just about any point guard in the NBA not named Chris Paul. I also think the arrival of Shaq, Grant Hill, and the new emergence of Amare makes this much less of a problem than it would have been even a year ago. This team doesn't need "superhero Nash" every night. It just needs the version who can push the tempo, and throw the ball into the post when the whole pick and probe thing isn't working. I think Nash will still be a very good point guard in this league for a long time. When he finally hangs it up, it will be on his terms, and most likely the Hall of Fame will be calling. But here's something that got lost in all the other reasons I've spouted off for not being gung-ho about the Shaq trade: I sure did want to see a pint-sized underdog type lead this team to a championship without needing a 7'0" big guy to come in and save the day. I'm still a little disappointed that it isn't going to happen that way.

by TexSUN on Feb 23, 2008 4:03 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

All possible
but based on my observations of passes not being crisp but shooting not being impacted I am going to guess some kind of shoulder/back nagging injury that affects his strenth and possibly flexibility to hurl the ball from all angles... If I have time I will put a few clips together of the kinds of "pass to the knees" I have seen that normally would have hit Bell or Hill in the hands for a clean quick and open 3pt shot. Clearly though you are right that Nash doesn't need to be superman night in and night out and that's a good thing. And I think barring any injuries this season's playoff run should be great. I worry about the team over the next two seasons but hey...one season at a time.
Phoenix - where blocks

by Phoenix Stan on Feb 23, 2008 5:14 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I guess maybe "worn down"
...is a better way to describe what I was thinking. But since he seems to be playing "worn down" a lot more often this season than in the prior ones, that led me to use the word "decline". In other words, maybe he's just finally (nearly four years after Mark Cuban thought he would) reached the point where his body simply can't recover enough between games and it's starting to affect his play.

Then again, it's just as likely we're going to read something on AZCentral in a couple of weeks about him having gone to sleep on the wrong side of the bed causing a shoulder strain. Seems like he (or the Suns?) never discloses injuries until weeks or months after the fact. And it could also just be that this season has taken a bigger toll than the prior ones because of all the stuff allegedly going on in the locker room. I doubt we'd hear him say anything about that either.

by TexSUN on Feb 24, 2008 11:13 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Nash passes
I agree about the passes.  The pass to Stoudemire at the end or the Hornets game was low, and actually bounced off Amare's calf.  Amare has great hands, and saved Steve a turnover, and was even able to get a shot up (which was missed due to a blocking foul).  If that pass is on target, we are tied or ahead with a three point play with 3.6 seconds left, instead of being behind by one and having to foul.

The passes are just enough off to alter the play slightly.  I felt in the LA game that many of the Laker deflections were due to sloppy passes that would have been layups or dunks if on tatget.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 23, 2008 7:53 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

was noticing same thing
on Nash and passing,etc.

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 23, 2008 10:37 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

aGNASHalysis
Thank you for the detailed breakdown, that's some work.

Whatever it is, the best in the business is on it. If they can rejuvenate SHACK following his exodus to the hurricane beaches, then they can wring out as much value from GNASH'S body as possible. Poor fella.

One thing to keep in mind: the SUNS still experience drastic reductions in offensive efficiency when the short white guy is out. The real problem this season is the second unit. Last season it seems diaw and LB had more success running the O together. Now it's like "COME ON GRANT!"

Perhaps boris needs to start...

O GREAT SUN, WE PRAY THAT YOU SHALL SEND THY HEALING RAYS UPON LITTLE GNASHTY

by The Humongous on Feb 23, 2008 9:19 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

This is interesting stuff
But I think you have to remember Nash was playing pretty stupid good at the beginning of this year.

Before the 15 game selection you bring up Nash was averaging a ridiculous 12.4 assists and 3.6 TOs, putting him at a 3.35 to 1 A/TO ratio. That would easily be his best since 04-05 when he had a 3.48 ratio. Two years ago he had a 3.0 to 1 ratio and last year a 3.05 to 1.

So in the past 15 games, when Steve has averaged a weak 10 assists and 4.5 TOs (2.2 to 1), you could almost see it as a leveling out of what would be his most efficient statistics since 04-05. I mean, that is what statistical history should indicate to us. Nash typically plays right around 3 to 1, so him playing at 3.35 to 1 was bound to come down to where he is now (2.95 to 1). Of course, these last 27 games are going to be strange sample with Shaq in the mix, so who knows where he'll end up.

Last, I think it's worth noting that most of Nash's really bad games over the past 15 have been against good teams.

Golden State - (12A/7TO) They create the most steals in the league and give Nash fits.

New Orleans - (12A/10TO) Chris Paul is a better overall player than Nash (though maybe not better at running an offense), especially on D. Sucks but it's true.

San Antonio - (8A/3TO and 6-18 shooting) Bowen is a lousy bastard.

Cleveland - (9A/7TO) They're flawed overall, but defensively Cleveland is one the best teams in the league.

Boston - (5A/5TOs) Boston plays great D and who knows how Steve's stats are going to look in this new Shaqled world.

Then, of course, there's still a couple of games that were just inexplicably bad (Chicago and Charlotte). Maybe those are indicative of decline or injury.

But, overall, I don't think we should look too much into these numbers. There's no doubt Steve is getting older, but the Suns, in general, are changing and, to be fair to Steve, for the year he's playing at about his average anyway.

And, most of all, it's only the late April to June numbers that really matter.

G

by rosewood on Feb 23, 2008 11:33 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Could be / Hope so
In general, I am skeptical about statistical analysis like the one I did for all those types of reasons you brought up (in very fine lawyerly fashion :). There are so many variables that can move a number a digit or two. My concern here and what prompted this in the first place, was what I was seeing anecdotally and then I found some numbers that clearly supported what I thought I saw. Yesterday afternoon, I thought about making a video of some those un-Nash like passes but decided that would be bad karma and certainly won't impact whatever the reality is anyway. I am sure if there is really something going on here that the team is aware of it. And clearly they are not keen with talking about whatever "it" is and would likely be in denial mode if asked anyway. As for the team's chances - I don't think this really changes anything as long as he doesn't get worse. All year they have been building towards a playoff run that was less dependent on Steve's individual brilliance and now with the big fella having such a huge impact on the glass they can tolerate even more decline. I just thought it was interesting and worth sharing. Nash hardly ever takes hits for his play like Amare, Raja, LB and the team French whipping boy so why not share the hate.
Phoenix - where blocks

by Phoenix Stan on Feb 24, 2008 8:11 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

True enough
Yeah, there's no doubt that Nash is in a mini-slump (he's still playing pretty well). The passes and the numbers show it. I just always try to come up with a way to make it sound like Steve will be great forever, because, well, he's Steve, and I wish he'd play forever.

How many more years do you think he'll play? He's got two years after this one on his contract. Will there be another one?

G

by rosewood on Feb 24, 2008 10:21 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Finish his contract
I think he will play it out and likely retire. He could hang on a few more years for less $ and in a backup role here or somewhere else but I think Steve has other things in his life then basketball and won't hang on for dear life like some other players do. The Suns certainly need to find the PG of the future next year so he can play a year under Nash and then even perhaps start in Steve's final year. Who that might be is a topic for another day.

What's most interesting is that Nash and Shaq both come off the books the same time LeBron is going to be ready to leave Cleveland. I would imagine that he will be looking for a dominate big man to play with and Amare will be in his prime at that point. The Magic are stuck w/ Lewis so they won't be an option. If the Suns can manage to win a ring before then that would make it all the more attractive to King James. Talk about eyes on the prize. That's it!

Phoenix - where blocks

by Phoenix Stan on Feb 24, 2008 3:59 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Nash
Now that we all have Nash losing it as a player, do you think we should try to retain Steve as a coach?
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 25, 2008 8:45 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he
has that in him.

Kind of like Stockton. They just don't have the personality for it.

And again, my guess is that after basketball Nash has plenty to keep him busy.

He could do some kind of mentoring role like Stockton does/did with Deron Williams or Karen does w/ Bynum.

But it would be on his terms I suspect and he would really have to like the player and believe in his effort and potential.

just my guess of course

Phoenix - where blocks

by Phoenix Stan on Feb 25, 2008 10:53 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Nash passes
Another thing worth considering, is that Mavs fans were saying the same things about Steve's supposed declining abilities when he was in Dallas, although nobody here was able to state it as eloquently and comprehensively as our SRP.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 24, 2008 7:32 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

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