Shaq for Matrix and Banks?

by Aluminum Foyle on Feb 5, 2008 6:51 PM MST Comment 76 comments

I was just coming to post about this and saw your's so I bumped it...-srp

I'm sure this is all BS, but if the Suns are actually considering a slow, injured, and washed up Shaq................................................................................................ ..............................................

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3232862

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7764252

Update [2008-2-5 21:16:50 by srp]:

I am going to add some thoughts of my own but first from the original source of the rumor:

The Heat has told center Shaquille O'Neal's representation that it is talking about trading him and he should be prepared for the possibility of a deal, according to two officials close to the situation. Phoenix has discussed sending forward Shawn Marion and point guard Marcus Banks to the Heat in return for O'Neal.

Asked for confirmation, one of O'Neal's representatives said O'Neal has been made aware that discussions with Phoenix are serious and ongoing, but that a deal was not definite.

I first got this rumor via text message alert from ESPN and KTAR about 5:10pm MST while standing in line to pick up Chinese food. I got home and mentioned it to my wife who said "that's stupid" which pretty much sums up my reaction as well.

I would love to say this is too dumb to even be considered with all the other Marion rumors we have heard about over the years but there's something about the Heat telling Shaq about it that seems to make it feel more true. And more scary.

So here it is. WTF! Why on EARTH would the Suns do this. How does taking on a broken down Diesel with two years/$40m make a bit of sense! Forget about how you replace the best perimeter defender in the league with a geriatric Shaq or how the Suns could possibly still run with Shaq on the floor like a giant anchor tied to a speed boat. Or how you could think that this guy could provide $20m worth of value for TWO MORE YEARS let along the rest of this season. Its just too dumb for words.

I IM'd TexSun about it and of course she was totally skeptical too. She thought that perhaps the Suns could somehow get Shaq declared crippled for life and recoup his salary via insurance and free up the cap space. Is that even possible? Rosewood? Even so, then you have traded the Matrix and Banks for what. A lottery type pick from the Heat (also rumored to be in the deal) and cap space? What are we here - Memphis? That would be a total act of capitulation for this season from the team with the best record in the West.

No, there's just no way this deal happens. I refuse to believe it.

Update [2008-2-5 21:30:00 by TexSUN]:

Well first things first, this has to be a joke. At least it better be. To elaborate a bit on srp's note about the IM conversation, that was me trying to dream up some way, any way this trade could possibly make some semblance of sense from the Suns' perspective. Unless the Suns are planning to trade Mike D'Antoni for Pat Riley as part of the deal, I just can't see Shaq fitting into the Suns' system any way, any how. I think Scott Bordow of the East Valley Tribune said it best:

O’Neal is old and broken down. He would fit into Mike D’Antoni’s system about as well as a tank on the Autobahn. The trade doesn't even make sense from a financial standpoint, as Marion--even if he takes his option this summer--is only signed for one more season, while Shaq has two. Which brings me to the IM conversation with srp--the only possible way I can imagine this trade making an iota of sense from the Suns side of things (barring a complete upheaval of the run-and-gun system) is if Miami includes their own pick unprotected, and if Shaq's hip problem is so bad that it qualifies as a career ending injury, thereby allowing his salary to be picked up by insurance. I'm not even sure that's allowed with a traded player, and even if it is, I agree with srp that it would make it seem like the Suns had given up on winning the ring this season. So here are my thoughts:

This rumor is total bunk.
In the unlikely event this rumor is not total bunk, there's something more to this that we're just not seeing.

As it stands, I am waiting impatiently for Steve Kerr to channel Mark Cuban with a "step away from your crack dealer" type of remark. Or just to reiterate Robert Sarver's "flat out not getting traded" comment from a few weeks ago. Then again, perhaps something like this is so ludicrous that it doesn't even dignify a response?

Update [2008-2-6 0:58:12 by srp]:

I hate to say it friends but the worst is looking like it might happen:

Coro is reporting that Shaq is coming to town Wednesday for a physical. I guess the Suns have a geriatric specialist on retainer...there's still hope that Sarver will see the light or Shaq will fall and can't get up sometime between now and a press conference with The Big Daddy in Orange and Purple. The thought just makes me sick. Go on Spurs and Lakers fans. Gloat away....Kerr and Sarver may be doing what your teams can't - destroy the Suns hopes.

If that game Monday against the Bobcats turns out to be the last time I saw Marion in a Suns uni...too depressing for words. Good night.

Poll

If this deal happens:

I will cheer Shaq and bronze his size 23's

10 votes

I will jump off the nearest building

34 votes

Shaq who?

8 votes

52 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 76 comments

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Comments

Deleted the duplicate...

...that was in the diaries.

As for this trade rumor itself...This is a joke. At least it better be.

by TexSUN on Feb 5, 2008 7:19 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

The first thing I did when I saw the headline...

...was let out a big hearty laugh.

There's no way the Suns are that foolhardy.

by NativeArizonan on Feb 5, 2008 7:27 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Yell it Loud

I suppose if you say something loud enough, it tends to gain credibility. Right, Stephen A. Smith? (Or, "Screamin' A. Smith" -- or, according to Mark Grace, Stephen A. Smith, the tool).

Anyway, this is the biggest piece of yellow journalism since the USS Maine. Wasn't that a Florida paper, too?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 8:05 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

Which why I ain't buying it. Well, that and the utter insanity of the idea.

by TexSUN on Feb 5, 2008 8:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If this trade goes through...

I think you have to anoint Steve Kerr to the class of Kevin McHale, Isiah Thomas, and Scott Layden. But this trade would trump any bad deal the aforementioned guys ever made, so you may just have to put Kerr at the top of the bad GM list. And also Sarver would have to go at the top of the bad owner list as well.

by Aluminum Foyle on Feb 5, 2008 9:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Shaq

One reading of this trade is that the Heat are trying to show the world that someone is interested in Shaq, and are willing to deal a very good player for him. In this scenario, the talks don't really even have to be serious, just cursury remarks. Miami may then trade Shaq to another team before the deadline.

The Suns are probably making the exact same type of statement. We're looking for a big-time player, and we can make a serious offer. I think this doesn't bode well for any Suns player not named Nash. There will almost certainly be a serious trade before the deadline, be it for Marion or other players.

Finally, I kind of like this deal. Shaq may be washed up, but if he isn't(a big if), a change of scenery would renew his career, and a potential rivalry with the Lakers in the playoffs would motivate him to play like his old self. Second of all, Shaq led teams have beaten both the Spurs and the Mavericks, our arch-rivals. No more Sarver penny pincher complaints after this deal.

by SilverSprings on Feb 5, 2008 8:44 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Sarver

If this trade happens, then Sarver's a liar. I am opposed to a trade for Shaq as he would slow the game down to a crawl, no more high-flying Suns.

by TwinnerA on Feb 5, 2008 9:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

O MY God

You guys are going to have Shaq tomorrow. HAHA..... What is steve kerr thinking? suns fan better smack some sense into him before you lose marion tomorrow.

by spursfan0829 on Feb 5, 2008 9:36 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Atleast

You won't have to worry about getting back on defense, shaq will be walking up the court.

by spursfan0829 on Feb 5, 2008 9:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

And...

your Spurs won't have to.....

-worry about forkin over money for a corrupt ref.
-worry that the Commish and the league office won't get your back again
-worry about knocking down the other team's best player, making his teammates jump to his aid, only to have suspended, so that you win a playoff series that you otherwise would not have been able to.

by Aluminum Foyle on Feb 5, 2008 9:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't change the subject

HAHA trading healthy Athletic player for grandpa.
Shoot if you want to get rid of marion so bad the spurs will give you brent barry.

by spursfan0829 on Feb 5, 2008 9:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

God I hope...

Kerr is not working for or being paid off by the Spurs.

by Aluminum Foyle on Feb 5, 2008 9:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Shaq wants the trade

From this article, it sounds more like it's wishful thinking on Shaq's part than anything else. Coach D says nothing's going on, too:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3232862

Those guys on ESPN sound so convincing ... I was even trying to talk myself into liking this trade. After all, he's averaging 14 points and 8 boards and plays defense (when he's not limping).

I'm not going to make the game tomorrow. Please, someone start and sustain some sort of "Keep Shawn Here!" chant. It'll make him feel good, so he'll stop demanding to be traded. Or ... something.

My head's spinning.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 10:04 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmm what if.....

Well tomorrow there will be alot of pissed off suns fans. Marion still has alot of years ahead of him, Kerr couldn't do better?

by spursfan0829 on Feb 5, 2008 10:04 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

noooooooooo!

I sure hope this is total nonsense. Even in his best days, Shaq couldn't run with a team like the Suns.

Other people around the league have to be laughing.

The only center I would trade Marion for that would not mess up the offense is Dwight Howard. Are we that desperate to get rid of Banks?

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 5, 2008 10:06 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

The Front Office would've been better off...

...drafting one or two young foreign big men in the '07 draft rather than trade both picks and then later trade away a key starter (Matrix) for an expensive, washed-up Shaq.

I will be so pissed if this goes through.

"I am not a role model. A million guys can dunk a basketball in jail, should they be role models?" - Charles Barkley

by kcbrett5 on Feb 5, 2008 10:06 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

i say

do it. team aint winning anything right now, marion needs to go, amare needs someone bigger and older than him in the locker room (for whatever reason) and he can now play the 4.

can beat the spurs, can beat the mavs, just worry about gsw (ha) and maybe the power of pau

marion has to go, i can talk myself into all most anything

(and in kerr's shoes, you lose banks TOO!? it's got to be tempting...)

downintx.com

by kidjay on Feb 5, 2008 10:10 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Matching Up with GSW

This move would solely be to counter the Warriors getting the old, slow Chris Webber.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 10:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

pippen and oakley want back in too, right? why not

btw I think i've already cooled off and am leaning towards the jump off the building thing

i think

downintx.com

by kidjay on Feb 5, 2008 10:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Jumping

I've already lept off the sidewalk, and -- miraculously -- I live to type.

Yet another theory:

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/05/is-phoenix-screwing-with-dallas-over-shaq/

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 10:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

God I hope so

but how do you keep Shawn after this?

Orangutans are this year's Lemurs

by Phoenix Stan on Feb 5, 2008 10:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Would have been nice if...

...we could have made a trade like this 5-6 years ago. Now? Pure, simple, unadulterated insanity. It'd instantly make Suns fans forget about DJ for Robey as the worst deal in team history.

And what's the deal with that spursfan guy? Does his momma know he's on the computer past his bedtime?

by Beatuofa on Feb 5, 2008 10:23 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Marion

So if this isn't a load of crap and Ric Bucher isn't making this stuff up that he's reporting, apparently Marion actually wants to go to a 9-37 team?? First Joe Johnson wants to go to a crummy team and then Marion? What the heck is wrong with these guys? Only thing I can think of is that Shawn's head hit the hardwood one too many times. The only upside to this I can see is Banks leaving.

by TwinnerA on Feb 5, 2008 10:25 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

on marion

too many things unknown with marion, but my bet it part of it is this

Marion is on a team with 2 other players that made the all star team and he didn't. This eats at him, marion is selfish and has always bitched about not getting recognized, etc etc, even though he's the suns highest paid player, etc etc. I'll be glad to see marion go, if he is actually the cancer in the locker room that many things kind of suggest, but shaq? Maybe 3-4 yrs ago, but now? We go to KG for Marion and some change to this? Wow!

I think everyone on this board is making a big mistake, Kerr and the suns aren't trying to win a championship like we might think, they're trying to become the first team in the nba with an average age of 40..... (side note...Kerr thinks if this goal is reached, he himself can play for 4-5 more years)

Camby or d. howard are good options, but shaq?

no thanks....but it sounds like it just might happen, please ... dear jesus, let there be a third mystery team involved....

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 5, 2008 11:47 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

This makes sense

From Jack McCallum:

"How would Shaq fit in with the Suns' running offense? Not at all. But as the Suns see it, they seldom run a five-man fast break, and Shaq would be the in-bounder. In the half-court, the high pick-and-rolls run by Steve Nash and current center Amaré Stoudemire would be more effective with a Shaq duck-in always available as an option. Plus, though he is averaging a career-low 14.2 points when he does play, Shaq still commands a double team, which leaves things more open for perimeter shooters such as Nash, Raja Bell, Grant Hill, Leandro Barbosa and even Stoudemire. Finally, as increasingly immobile as he might be, Shaq would be able to defend against the bigger frontcourt players (such as San Antonio's Tim Duncan and new Laker Pau Gasol), a weakness of Stoudemire's."

Here is the link:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jack_mccallum/02/05/heat.mccallum/index.html

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 10:35 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Playing devil's advocate for a minute

...here are a few more reasons why this might be ok.

A mentor for Amare.
Also keeps Amare happy by moving him back to PF where he "belongs".
Suns exchange a guy who's motivated by personal aspirations like being defensive player of the year, getting a big extension, being "the man", etc. for a guy who wants to win his fifth championship before he retires.
We'd be able to hang with the Spurs. (At the expense of being run off the floor by GSW, etc).
We'd be rid of Banks.
Change is good. Except when it's a bad change. Which this is. Never mind.

by TexSUN on Feb 5, 2008 10:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

If we can get the unrestricted pick for this year then this deal doesnt fail at life as much.

But damn Shaq is old and costs a ton of money!!!

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle, but in defeating your enemy without ever fighting." Sun Tzu

by Turambar on Feb 5, 2008 11:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Done deal?

According to Gambo...

http://www.ktar.com/sports/?nid=126&sid=724522

What is this guy's "hit rate"?

by TexSUN on Feb 5, 2008 11:01 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

He's Good

He's got a good success rate. If he's reporting this, I'd put money on it.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 11:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Gambo has good sources.

Orangutans are this year's Lemurs

by Phoenix Stan on Feb 5, 2008 11:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

Stoudemire has already turned over his #32 jersey.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 11:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

I think it's going to happen, and there are some good things to it, and even with our record, look at how poorly we played against the spurs and they were without barry and parker!!

We needed to do something, I would've preferred getting pau gasol for marion and banks (forget about money matching...just a thought), i honestly think the suns might have just helped themselves for the next 2 years.

Lets face facts, it's not like the suns management has tried to get anyone from the draft (we always pass up or sell our picks),

We should see if shaq can do ads for the room store... (note to all who loved marion...I liked him also), but someone who thinks he's worth $20 million when he's already the highest paid player and does nothing but bitch about how much he does for the team, I think Marion has to go....just wish it wasn't for someone twice his age, but it will be interesting playing the spurs in april...

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:00 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's pray he doesn't pass the physical

This makes even less sense when you figure he's currently injured and is undergoing an MRI for his hip injury.

Hopefully, Shaq doesn't fall over on Hill. We'd lose them both.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 11:19 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Also

the yahoo sports page is also confirming that the trade has happened.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ao.0v3DLbw4E4VZBjCcAalK8vLYF?slug=jy-shaqdeal020508&pro v=yhoo&type=lgns

by ldeep on Feb 5, 2008 11:23 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

LIES!!!!!

please say it aint so!!!!

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle, but in defeating your enemy without ever fighting." Sun Tzu

by Turambar on Feb 5, 2008 11:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel like Judas

"If that game Monday against the Bobcats turns out to be the last time I saw Marion in a Suns uni...too depressing for words. Good night."

I sold my tickets to that game -- for $30 (poetic, no?), at a loss -- because I didn't want to go see Charlotte on a Monday night and I was kinda busy.

I'm sorry, Shawn ...

Anyone want the rest of my tickets?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 11:23 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

MADNESSSS!!!!!

Of all the big time trades the Suns could possibly make this one seemed the least likely just a few hours ago. Now it might actually happen?
What the hell is going on with this world?!?!?!?!

God I hope it isnt so. I'd rather see a whole myriad of other Marion trades go down than this one. Maybe the Suns are just stiring the pot for something greater that shall come to pass? I'm trying to think of who they can get for Marion instead that would catapult this team to glory. Not really sure who that would be though but i'm almost certain it wouldnt be Shaq.

Well if it's got to happen please let Maimi give us their pick.

"Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle, but in defeating your enemy without ever fighting." Sun Tzu

by Turambar on Feb 5, 2008 11:27 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Picks?

I haven't seen any reports of picks being included.

That would be something ...
And, we'd get to see more of DJ, too.

So, you know, we've got that going for us.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 5, 2008 11:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

well...

Slowly and surely more and more articles are appearing saying that this trade is actually confirmed pending a physical.

by ldeep on Feb 5, 2008 11:35 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I happen to see some benefits..

When I first saw this headline - I about fell out of my chair. I love Shawn Marion and he exemplifies the Suns style to a 't'.....but there is a good chance he will opt out next year, so why wouldn't the front office try to get something for him, despite Sarver saying the opposite? And Banks isn't doing us much good.

Listen - the marriage between Shaq and the Suns seems like it would be odd, but when you really think about it, why wouldn't they make one last hurrah before Steve Nash starts slowing down a little? They are also countering the lakers Pau Gasol move, obviously - but with good reason. The Lakers, Spurs, Jazz, Hornets and even the Mavs are bigger and will prove to be a dogfight in the post season. Getting Shaq doesn't make sense in the long run, but I feel better about our chances for a title with him right now vs. the status quo. Besides, as much as I love Shawn and the things he does, he always seems to lye low in the playoffs, when he should be rising to the occasion.

The season is half over, Phoenix has the best record in the west and a good chance to get a top seed - why not strategically position your team for a long post run when it will inevitably turn into a grind out half court game? The Suns can play good half court offense, they just choose not to most of the time. And unfortunately - SA has more experience with playing that way and eats them for lunch. Shaq evens that out a little.

Bottom line is that the Suns are versatile. They will still run. Like others have said - Shaq can hang back as a defender while 3 or 4 run the break. If they turn it over - Shaq can be waiting at the other end with a big rejection, or at least hold them off until the rest catch back up defensively. They will start Shaq out with light minutes until he is in better condition and then he'll ramp up towards the playoffs and be able to contribute some solid PT right when we need him the most. He still commands a double team (most of the time) and they won't abandon their style completely - JEESH guys! Ever hear of SUBTLE CHANGES?

They are resilient and are adapting. Yes, it's too bad that Shaq looks like a shell of his former self, but he is just UNMOTIVATED in Miami. Wouldn't you be if you were in the league as long as Shaq, had already won (4) titles and was part of a horrible team? Nash will make life easy for Shaq by feeding him the rock, Shaq will help Amare, and Phoenix will breathe new life into him and vice versa. Shaq will attract even more fans and Phoenix will finally get it's championship!

Sarver, Kerr and D'Antoni have to go for it. That's what it's all about - the big trophy. This is their chance. Worry about next year when it comes. There's no guarantee that the run & gun style wouldn't be dismantled anyways. I say roll the dice.

by cadalyst on Feb 5, 2008 11:39 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

but...

marion did do stuff that I can't shaq imagine doing. I recall the hornets game where marion started guarding paul. Hes one of the best defenders and when you run (well used to run) like the suns do losing what defense you have is gonna hurt. One thing for sure the little rivalry the lakers having going on with the suns might have stepped up after this. Kobe and the lakers vs shaq and the suns. theres headlines I see nba exploiting.

by ldeep on Feb 5, 2008 11:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

big time

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:05 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

do you think

having shaq (and skinner) guard the opposing team's big man will help reduce amare's fouls and keep him on the floor longer?

by RealTangiblesGuy on Feb 5, 2008 11:49 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

nice point

I think it helps amare with that

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

positive spin.....

Again, much love to the Matrix - but even if Shawn kept his production up during the playoffs - I would still rather fell better knowing Shaq is in the low post when the game is on the line. The big fella is a proven winner and even giving 15 and 8 and good post D is enough to get us the ring.

Knowing that he'll be seeing a lot of the kobe & the Lakers will put the fire back in his eyes.

by cadalyst on Feb 5, 2008 11:50 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

This is shaq you know

The man who almost had the record for most Consecutive foul outs and Skinner doesn't even get to play that much to begin with and with shaq here I see him losing some more time. STATS fouls will probably stay the way they are.

by ldeep on Feb 5, 2008 11:53 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I kind have a question

you know how everyone was saying it was this year or bust. well with shaqs contract on them now if they mess up this year is it pretty much downhill slope or is there another scenario I'm missing.

by ldeep on Feb 5, 2008 11:55 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

everyone is missing the great chance here

we need to sign pippen, lets keep getting the old guys!! come on!!

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:07 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

One more point

Okay if marion plays like 40 minutes a game and shaq does 25 minutes. a whole lot of minutes are gonna come out of somewhere. either dantoni starts using his bench more or the starters start playing more minutes. (first is always hard to imagine and second is just not good). This trade is just raising so many problems every second.

by ldeep on Feb 6, 2008 12:00 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

maybe so

but after these 5

amare
nash
bell
shaq
hill

then you have
barbosa & Diaw

2 very good to great players, I don't think minutes will be a problem (plus skinner...) 7 to 8 deep, better than 5-6. No question though, its a gamble...

I think this really helps amare (getting him out of the center position) which he should've never been in,

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

assuming

that shaq stays healthy for the rest of the season. This is the real gamble. if he was just 14 and 8 and being a true center to face other big men when it happened I could see the benefits. However with all these injury problems steve kerr could get more hate (from the suns fans) as GM then the grizzles and timberwolves. If suns lose the pain is gonna be ridicioulous. at least if marion opted out you would some extra money. Well I lost track of my original point. Amare is still gonna play some center and if anything will lose more games then they would have before (espically if its true and offically happened tomorrow cause marion nor shaq will be there to face the hornets)

by ldeep on Feb 6, 2008 12:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

no question

it's a huge gamble, there's such a fair to good chance shaq won't be able to play with all the injuries and age. I heard Camby might have been a possibility, I'd be behind that, or D.Howard, or Boozer, even if shaq was 31 it'd be a tough sll, but 36! Also, part of what has Nash still going is his methods, and his position, he hasn't been getting nailed daily for 14 seasons like shaq has, well, unless bowen or hory is guarding him.

let me ask you this, would've you traded marion and banks for gasol? I think there's a serious rift between marion and some others on the team, don't know all the facts, but it's clear this is a big part of the reason the suns have been trying to trade marion for awhile.

let's be honest about one thing though, i heard some others mention this would beat out the rick robi for d.j trade, and that's simply not true. This trade does have potential, but it's incredibly risky, .... I'd like to see the coach go and maybe we could get riley here. We'd be better off, I like Nash, he's great, but I'll throwup if I hear D'Antoni say the following again.

Reporter....why the dropoff in the third q, or whatever...

Coach D, well, when you take the best player in the league out of the game, your bound to have a dropoff,

Me, enough Coach, enough...Nash is great, he's a great passer, he's unselfish, he's a great shooter, and he's brought back many fans to the nba, but Lebron is the best player in the nba, and then....others, k.g., kobe, etc....

Also, on the fast break, why do we need 5 players that can run, I think 4 that can run and a tank being left back to guard the hoop sounds ok to me. Personally, it's kind of funny, I think they should've used shaq as the monster in the new movie cloverfield, on a side note... I did love that new add with shaq as a jockey!

Link to youtube of shaq new superbowl ad

I have to say this, Shaq will bring a level of goofiness that we're no where near, kind of fun...

chunk of love (the horse)...you have to kind of like him....that 3rd yr left (the last shaq yr for $20 million), that's a killer to add to the already huge gamble..

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm coming over queasy.

...

by NativeArizonan on Feb 6, 2008 12:16 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I've talked myself into this . . .

In no small part because I've never been that big on Shawn. He's averaging 15.8 and 9.9 this season; a clearly uninspired Shaq has averaged 14.2 and 8. I do believe Shaq wil be re-invigorated (to some extent, I'm not expecting a miracle) to the point where he may even outdo Shawn
Marion may be a better wing defender, but since it's the Duncans, Bynums and such who always seem to punish the Suns, I don't think it's that bad of a shift.
As the McCallum article pointed out, you don't run a five man fast break- Shaq won't have to run that much.
And I am VERY excited ( I just have a gut feeling) to see Nash-Bell-Diaw-Amare-Shaq.
Had to post, because it seems like I'm the only one midly intruiged by this trade

by UASun on Feb 6, 2008 12:32 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

but i also remember mccallum

writing in the book that many executives around the league think the suns enforce the fast-break style via marion

by RealTangiblesGuy on Feb 6, 2008 12:35 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I've heard that before

But always had a hard time believing it. He doesn't force Odom, Nowitzki, Harrington, West to adapt to the Suns style- he gets destroyed by them.
Also, Bruno makes a good point about it obviously being a move for the playoffs. We have a great record already, an easy schedule coming up- I think now would be the right time (if there ever is a good time) to start making any changes. Where was Marion last year against the Spurs? Although it may hurt us in the regular season, is there any Suns fan that doesn't want to see Shaq bruising Duncan come May?

by UASun on Feb 6, 2008 12:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Blazers fan here

I like this trade for you guys.
This is obviously a trade thinking in the post season, not regular season and I think it might work.
The main loss will be perimeter defense, but maybe Hill and Raja will be enough. On offense I think HIll and Amare can keep the pressure, running hard after the suns get possession.
The biggest pluses are:

Obvious strong offensive post presense.
More size to defend big guys.
No Shawn MArion on the half court offense shooting 3 pointers.( he's one the worst off. bball IQ in the half court offense in the entire league)
Chemistry? just especulating

Moneywise you guys shouldn't care, it's Sarver's money and you'd still be over the cap wioth or without the trade.

by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 12:36 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

if they did

Mraion+Diaw+banks
for Shaq+haslem
then it would be a steal for the suns.
but I guess Miami wouldn't do.

by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 12:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

bruno

good points...on oden, I'm excited to see him with you guys next year, exciting to see him play in college, some of his blocks, awesome.

There's an ad that comes on tv sometimes, it just kills me, it has nash talking about some of the suns players helping people, etc...typical nba self promoting stuff, and in it, nash says, "and Marion to time to teach some basic fundamentals to kids"!!!!!! This kills me, since I think many suns fans are still waiting for shawn to learn the fundamentals of dribbling and shooting.

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

"to time" = "took time"

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

also

thought of this, have shaq sit at the end of the bench closest to the scoring table, he can block amare and some of the other not so smart players from running onto the court again next year, because I'd expect this to happen again...

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:44 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

also

in reference to getting bullied by the spurs, etc

...you know how in boxing, every once in a while, a fighter dies...

Hasn't shaq killed about 30 people already, the guy is listed at 7'1 but I think he's really 8ft and 500 lbs. They should make a comedy with him and some little white guy...wait a minute...

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 12:46 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I'm a diehard Lakers fan

I often post on a Lakers blog and someone linked me to this blog to see what you guys were saying about the Shaq trade. I'm not here to bash you guys and say you suck, although I do hate your team. Please don't take offense to that. I'm sure you all hate my team. Why I'm here is because I'm confused. Everyone at the Lakers blog is confused. Why would the fastest team in the NBA that currently sits atop the West make this trade? Do you guys know something that we don't? Even in his prime with the Lakers, he was never as fast as a speeding bullet. I just don't understand. My head hurts.

by Davyjonze on Feb 6, 2008 1:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

there's been problems

with marion for a long time now, how do you explain the third best player on our team who gets paid the most of any player on our team ($17 million) saying he deserves $20 million? There's much more, but you get the idea.

As far as shaq goes, I think most of us are confused also...there's little question our current team can't beat s.a., and we're all about winning the title, not record, who cares about record as long as you still make it to the playoffs.

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 7:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Jason...

I might just change my mind about that game in San Antonio.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 6, 2008 11:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno, but...

I'm not sold on this trade, but I can understand it somewhat. It's clear to me after watching Thursday vs. the Spurs that the Suns would have been very lucky to beat them in the playoffs with the current team. They give up atrocious amounts of offensive rebounds, and any half decent big man has a huge game against the Suns (I was already dreading how much Chandler was going to dominate the boards tomorrow).

Plus I think that the showdown between Marion and the Suns over a contract extension was looming. It's clear the Suns didn't want to extend him (even though I think they should have) and he was going to use his contract option as leverage this offseason, or come back for another year, be moody, and be a free agent after next year.

Maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into liking the trade, it seems to me that if the Suns were willing to throw out Marion on the trade block, there were more attractive options then a guy in questionable shape, who's been in serious decline the last few years.

by Kwama79 on Feb 6, 2008 1:32 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

yep

don't forget, the suns had the kevin garnett deal locked up, it was going to be marion and some non major players for garnett (before boston came in a month later and got k.g.). It was all but a done deal, but marion said he'd opt out, marion killed it, else we could've been amare, nash, and k.g.

So don't think we haven't been trying, they have been...on shaq being to old, etc, that's obvious, but a 75% shaq, if he can play 25 minutes a game for us is better than anyone we had. I'm jealous we didn't get gasol, you guys (lakers) become the instant favorites to win it all after that trade

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 7:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

More Lakers Fans Invading the Blog

But I'm going to say right away that while I take pleasure from the Lakers beating you guys, I still tune in to Suns games because they're entertaining. When the Lakers are not in the playoffs I even root for you guys on occasion. And even if you hate us, I think we can both agree that the Spurs are public enemy number one.

But this trade has me confused too. The Lakers fans are pretty happy about this trade because Shaq's pretty much like a better version of Kwame on defense now. He doesn't rebound as well as Marion. Shaq's good at muscling opposing centers around, but other than that he's a defensive liability. We still have good memories of Shaq in LA and it hurts me to watch him get moved around like a piece of raw meat.

He doesn't fit in your system of run and gun, you are guys are going to give up your second or third best player for a guy who might be worse? Shaq can play 25-30 minutes on a good night, what are you guys going to do to fill that hole if he's injured or during the other half of the game?

Offensively, Shaq is still pretty potent. But that was never the Sun's problem. I'm really confused by this trade.

The reason why I care so much is I still have a grudge against you guys. I won't consider it settled until the Lakers beat the Suns when both are healthy, strong, and at the top of their game. A Suns team with Shaq instead of Marion just isn't that kind of team.

by AndrewT on Feb 6, 2008 2:56 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

autobahn

O'Neal is old and broken down. He would fit into Mike D'Antoni's system about as well as a tank on the Autobahn.

Thats what the autobahn was initially built for..

by emirem on Feb 6, 2008 9:16 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Craziness

The only way this is acceptable is if we get Miami's #1 pick.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 6, 2008 9:25 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

A little perspective...

You guys should hear what they're saying here in Dallas. They think the Mavs chances are dead. The local ESPN guys and Dallas Morning News guys are saying Cuban got scooped, and that they have to make a move. I hope they panic and trade for Jason Kidd. I don't think he helps if they lose Stackhouse and Harris.

I honestly think Kerr did this deal because if he didn't, Cuban would have gotten Shaq.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 6, 2008 11:18 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Shaq's hip

BTW, what is Shaq's injury situation?

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 6, 2008 11:19 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

If you have lemons, make lemonade

For a minute, let's assume Shaq is over his injuries, and he can play 25-30 minutes.

You have an old Shaq at center, one of the top centers of his generation

You have Amare at his natural position of power forward, where he can still dominate most one-on-one matchups.

You have the two-headed threat of Diaw and Hill at SF. Whoever does not start quarterbacks the bench.

You have Raja at SG, backed up by the lightning quick SMOTY, LB.

You have Nash backed up by DJ

Brian Skinner will back up Shaq, and Boris will back up Amare.

As long as the trade goes down, we might as well try to analyze what's left.

I still want to know if Miami's pick is included. If not, Kerr got taken. He could at least swapped it (unprotected) with the Hawks' pick.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 6, 2008 11:28 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

hey Hawk42

Let me know...sounds good though, it's still open

I agree on the thought better to take shaq than have dallas get him, i think dallas is out of the mix, it's all about lakers / cleveland / boston / n.o. /
spurs / and us

I called my friend mark in phoenix, he's been a suns fan for 20+ years, and he's excited about it, whats the word on potential return to lineup for shaq?

Old article 2 weeks, but good info

I know it's not 100% done yet, but doesn't hurt to read and learn more about Shaq. To me, this article is awesome, to me, it means if he can get healthy, he'll be awesome, and who has the best rehab and physical health team, us, the suns...look at how well hill and amare are doing, I'm starting to get excited, better to have a great player (even old) who has an injury, than a great player with no injuries, but a long history of mental issues...

I'm a little excited, but will miss marion and hope he is happier in Miami, ps.. side note, I hope marion is traded 3 times in next 5 years and wakes up and realizes the suns weren't doing anything wrong listening to trade options over the years. Marion would always get so upset about being involved in trade rumors, with the freedom and security for his family all his money buys, and he bitches about not getting what he deserves, with that in mind, I hope he is gone...

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 2:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs