Bright Side Of The Sun: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Race to the BCS: rankings, in-game scores & blogs Bar-right-arrows



Best Case Scenario - is it worth it?

It's pretty clear that about 75% of Suns fans are in mortal shock right now and the other 25% are smoking crack...ok, maybe just a little happy tabaky.

But what if everything works out perfectly and the Suns actually win the ring with this new "Suns" team. Is it worth it? Is it even still the Suns?

First some assumptions:


  • Shaq shows up and is actually healthy, in shape and able to play (forget for a minute what that says about the man's character for jaking the Heat this season)

  • The Suns locker room chemistry erupts in rainbows and flowers and proves that Marion was actually a Dementor sucking all the happiness from the team's soul

  • Amare and Shaq can share the paint and not turn into Curry and Zebo

  • Shaq can play solid D on Duncan, Dampier or Dirk(?), Bynum or Gasol(?), Boozer or Okur (?), Chandler or West (?) and then KG or Sheed and not turn into Ben Wallace with bigger feet and a fatter wallet

  • Diaw steps us and give us the consistent Full French (no really, this time he does)

  • Hill can take on some of Marion's perimeter D and runs the floor without leaving his ankles at the half court line

  • Shaq shows up and is actually healthy, in shape and able to play (this deserves being mentioned twice)

  • The Suns get the Heat's lottery pick and are able to get a really good young center like Horford or Odom (oh right, this is the point guard draft and we still need one of those too)

So, assume all that and a Shaq-load more and everything works out swimmingly and the Suns are able to win the ring this year and ask yourself this:

Is it worth it to sell the team's soul to the devil to finally hang a banner in the USAC rafters?

Is it a better option then moving Marion for a few other parts that would include an athletic big like Channing Frye or Johan Petro and another young player or two? Or my favorite option - standing pat and giving this team another run even if it means you lose Marion next year and end up with a ton of cap space to play with.

Does a ring justify a $40 million millstone filling your cap space bathtub?

And most importantly, is a ring worth turning the most exciting show on sneakers into...well into the Heat?

I still say no.  

Poll
Is it worth it to win even one ring?
Of course - this team and town deserves one no matter what
477 votes
No way - a ring doesn't pay for suffering through 196 games of Shaq's fat ass
285 votes

762 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 37 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

N-O
I agree.

by brian13 on Feb 6, 2008 2:58 PM MST   0 recs

I Guess I'm a Whore
As a fan who's been dying for a championship for all these years ... I don't care about "changing" the style of play or whatever.  I don't know that it's going to work -- it's either madness or genius.  I don't know.

If it means a championship, though, then it's genius.  No brainer.

Of course, those assumptions are pretty far-fetched.

I am sad to see Shawn go, though.  But if it means a title, then I'm a back-stabber like that (I should've been a lawyer).

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 3:14 PM MST   0 recs

I'm in agreement with Jsun
Also we're talking about multiple things that need to be separated, not talked about in 1 is it good or not thought.

For starters

1.Deal with Marion, yes he is a great player, yes he meant a lot to the suns, but with his bitching about stuff, his disappearing act in the playoffs at times, and that he thinks he's worth more money when he's already overpaid, I'm glad he's leaving.

2.Deal with Style of Play being changed
yeah, it's quite likely they won't be as much fun to watch (the suns)

3.Shaq...seriously, look what nash has done for so many players coming to the suns, I think there's a chance here, plus good old rivalry against kobe (for shaq), if that's not motivation, nothing is

If marion isn't in the ring of fire or whatever it's called, he probably deserves to be, he has meant that much to phoenix,

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 3:54 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Dirty Diesel
Most fun of all:

We're going to get a lot of pictures of Shaq and Doris over at DirtyScottsdale.com

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 3:18 PM MST   0 recs

Look at it this way...
Fortune favors the bold. After three years of upset fans wondering why their too-shallow, soft-D team keeps getting bounced from the Playoffs, what could be bolder than signing a cap-hogging senior citizen who's a perennial injury risk and who's lucky to make it back on D before the other team's shot clock expires?

Fortune obviously also favors the prospect of a 6-man Suns Playoff rotation.

by Rand on Feb 6, 2008 3:41 PM MST   0 recs

Not a suns fan
but if everything you said becomes true, the answer has to be an obvious yes.
Is there any chance that the Suns would get Miami's pick? I guess not.

I don't know why you guys care so much about winning the championship playing small ball. If you're a true basketball fan you should like teams that play smart ball, fast or slow.

by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 3:49 PM MST   0 recs

If you're not a Suns fan
Get off the damn board.  Why else come to a Phoenix Suns blog?

by MichiganSunsFan on Feb 6, 2008 3:55 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

I'm a blazers fan
but in the past few years the blazers have sucked so I started to wathcing a lot of the Sun's games mainly because of Nash but also barbosa ( I'm from Brazil).
 Never been a fan o Marion though, and that's clearly one of the reasons that I think this trade can be good for you guys. I'm also curious to see how amare plays with Shaq, I think we may see a big improvement on his defense and boards.

by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 4:21 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

i agree
this could really turn out helping amare and diaw, let alone the suns

also, barbosa is cool, did you ever read the ten part story espn did with him, based on a book the guy traveling with barbosa is writing (or wrote)?


All 10 stories

Really a great story and read!!

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:37 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

yeah I read it
 I'm not a big fan of LB as a player. He's very talented but I think he has to get a lot better at understanding the game, both offensively and defensively. As a person and teamate he seems to be the perfect guy to have around.
 Also loved the story of the prank someone made telling him he was going to get traded to the knicks.

by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 4:58 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

yeah
I heard about the prank, that was awesome haha

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 5:00 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Wow, nice attitude
The original poster has a great point, and people who aren't Suns fans don't understand the obsession with small-ball considering it's been proven over and over again not to work in the playoffs when the play becomes slower and more physical.

In contrast to the attitude of the poster above, we at Blazersedge (http://www.blazersedge.com)would love to hear from Suns fans, and every other kind of fan.  

by Leeroy on Feb 7, 2008 10:24 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

Agreed
We welcome feedback and discussion with other team's fans as long as they don't get out of hand. We like to have good conversations without getting into the "your team sux" stuff. I thought about deleting that rude comment but I always hate to do that. Sorry. Besides, we are all still in a state of shock here.

As for the point about small ball and the playoff's there's alot I could say here but don't really have the time.

Quick points: Suns this year have transitioned (pun intended) from all small ball ala GSW to a much better half court team that after the secondary break. I have posted about that here before...

I have also said that the Suns need a solid athletic big to sometimes start at center and sometimes backup amare depending on the matchups. I like Channing Frye in that role perhaps or Johan Petro or a guy like Diop or Nazr Mohameed. Those guys are all athletic enough to play out a bit from the paint and not get burned on the pick and roll unlike Shaq but still big enough to man up to a Duncan. Of course, no one guards Duncan 1:1 and shuts him down just like no one can contain CP3, Nash, Amare or Roy.

It takes mobility and teamwork on D and Shaq lacks that.

On offense he doesn't move either and while he passes well out of doubles he can't play away from the hoop which gives Amare less space and he can't play pick and roll w/ Nash and well, he can't move. The Suns half court offense this year is much more like Utah's percision passing cutting screening system and is beautiful to watch with Grant and Diaw able to also move the ball and Amare (and Shawn) to finish anything near the rim and of course good shooters in Bell and Diaw and Nash. This was really coming together and I was looking forward to seeing it in the playoffs.

Orangutans are this year's Lemurs

by Phoenix Stan on Feb 7, 2008 11:21 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

Maybe because ...
Many of the fans became fans watching the run-and-gun Suns.  Just a thought.

Like I said above, I hate to see Matrix go but if it brings a title then Kerr is a genius (if not, he's a madman.).

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 3:55 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

bruno
I'm a huge die hard suns fan, I've been living in dallas now for 2 yrs after 30 yrs in Phoenix, I'm with you on this, small ball, big ball, fast, slow, I WANT A CHAMPIONSHIP, I DON'T CARE IF IT'S UGLY, but you make a good point, many do. Interesting...

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:05 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

also
I'm definitely an anti laker guy, how can any long time suns fan not be after the Magic Johnson years, but I find myself wanting to watch and see how gasol does, funny huh? He looked great in his first laker game, just wait 'til Bynum is back,

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:07 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

I'm with you in the anti-lakers thing
and I hope they lose in the 7th game of the first round with Kobe shooting 6 for 30 but the team looks awesome.
I saw 3 miami games this season, the one against the suns in Miami and both against the blazers. Shaq played well in all of them, in my opinion.
 

by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 4:29 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Good move
Marion was going to opt out after this year anyway, so at least this way the Suns get SOME compensation for him.  

You guys really shouldn't be so concerned with "oh no, it's going to change our style of play"!  uhh... BOO-HOO!  Look, we are fans of the team because we like them...obviously.  But what fans want is victory!  You guys can't stand there and spew the bull that says you would rather have a losing team full of atheletes than a winning team of brute strangth.  Come on.  I doubt the fans in Atlanta are super jazzed about their awesome athletic team...rather, the fans of San Antonio are about as diehard as they come!  

This trade allows the Suns to be athletic (with Amare Stoudemire, LB)  and also be able to grind it out in the playoffs (Shaq, Brian SKinner, Grant Hill)

~PHX-FIRE~

by willthehawkhawkins on Feb 6, 2008 3:57 PM MST   0 recs

yep...
this next few weeks feels like the playoffs, for me, because I'm so curious to see how they play

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:09 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

This just in
Shaq passed the physical, according to the latest from AZ Republic. Guess we're just waiting on league approval now.

by TexSUN on Feb 6, 2008 4:06 PM MST   0 recs

wow,
if this works, what a move by Kerr, he's a risk taker, I like that, I've never thought Sarver was cheap, those complaining about K.Thomas, great guy and all, and he played very well against Duncan, but he was way overpaid,

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:11 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

It's done
See latest post.

by TexSUN on Feb 6, 2008 4:15 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

This maty not be the end of 7 seconds or less
Let's be honest--Kurt Thomas wasn't exactly flying up and down the court the last couple of years; we know Shaq isn't going to be running the break a la the matrix, but anyone who really watches the Suns will tell you they haven't been running as much this year.  This is a huge gamble but I am not convinced it's the worst move Kerr could have made.  

I'm always hopeful for the Suns but I also try to be realistic about the team and I have been feeling this group was not quite going to get it done this year.  They haven't seemed to have the fire that we've witnessed the last few years.  I've had home and away Marion jerseys in my closet since he was drafted, the Suns are going to miss him, but the writing was on the wall there and he was all but certain to be gone by the end of the season anyway.

As I've thought about this trade all day, I'm beginning to talk myself into seeing how this could work.  Nash is the offense here, and he is still going to be.  I'm hoping this is the end of the season-long trend of every center in the league having a career night against Amare in the middle.  Plus the post-game interviews from "The Big Mumble" will be awesome.

by SoCalSun on Feb 6, 2008 4:18 PM MST   0 recs

yep
I'm looking forward to hearing Shaq also, he's hilarious hahaha

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:28 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

coupla things
  1. This looks like Steve Kerr saying, where is the team that i saw when i was on tnt watching you guys?" He (and myself) doesn't see the fire that everyone had when it was "the good ole days" with diaw as the center or Barbosa blazing too fast for the tv guys to keep up. I personally became a suns fan when the Nash came to town and I was awed by how they played like they had nothing to lose (plus, when i played, i always wanted to be a player like Nash). Perhapsibly Kerr's thinking that his team needs some life forcibly pumped into those zombiotic (is that a word?) bodies we tend to see, especially against the lower tier or Eastern Conference teams. Playoff-wise, its a whole new ballgame and the best team doesn't always win. Shaq is and always will be a guy who cracks jokes and lightens the mood while trying to lumber that large anatomy of his down the floor. I remember somewhere that Nash even admitted that playing this year doesn't seem nearly as fun as the previous seasons because of the load of expectations that have been thrust upon them. A jovial and happy presence in the locker room is always more welcome than a sour and jealous one. The best move that Kerr or Sarver or anyone else can make is keeping everyone motivated, fired up, and wanting to come into "work" every day.
  2. My immediate response to the move was not unlike Nancy Kerrigan's after Harding but without the physical pain part. I could not comprehend why the team would up and decide to lose their identity. But after thinking about it, I am pretty sure that (when/if?)we beat Duncan, Ginobili, Kobe, Dirk, CP,and capture the title later this year, I will not be so unhappy about this trade. Victory overcomes all other emotions (usually).

by jacksonian on Feb 6, 2008 5:07 PM MST   0 recs

Is it...
...wrong that I've already started wishing that Shaq will retire after this year? :)

by TheyCallMePhil on Feb 6, 2008 5:46 PM MST   0 recs

Tone down a bit
I can see the positives on this deal, the few that are there. If Shaq stays healthy and we win cool! IF NOT though, if Shaq breaks down like he might, don't be suprised to see an angry Asian man marching down Jefferson Street with a Robert Sarver and Steve Kerr effigy burning in the night.
"Act well your part: there all the honor lies"-Alexander Pope

by PurplePinoy on Feb 6, 2008 6:01 PM MST   0 recs

possible outcome
I am warming to the deal.  It is a steal if we get a pick, but as is, we have to consider some points:
  1.  We are rid of Marcus Banks and his contract - Many have called for this and pointed out that not only is he a black hole with the ball, his attitude is a definite locker room problem.  I remember when he sored 40 points in the summer league game, many thought Miami was a good fit for him.
  2.  People seem to forget that Shawn asked for a trade.  Unless he rescinded that request, you can bet the FO never forgot the demand.  It was clear the way he played in several single digit scoring games that his heart was not in it.
So we have removed 2 locker room distractions.  I don't see how anyone can say we didn't have to move him and Banks, to a lesser extent.

3.  Amare was limited by playing center.  Also, the fire that was in his eyes in 04-05 has not returned on a consistent basis, perhaps due to the strain of guarding centers, and the pressure cooker that was his relationship with Shawn.

See exhibit A - the 1972 Lakers.  Wilt Chamberlain spent most of the 70-71 season willing his body to play through the aches and pains of a devastating knee injury the year before.  Even though he played well at times in the finals against the Knicks, he really wasn't right until the 1971 season, and in 1970-71, he had to deal with Lew Alcindor.  Also, it was clear that Elgin Baylor was not going to fit in with Bill Sharman's share the wealth team concept, so he retired rather than drag his knees through another season bickering with the Big Dipper.

What you had left was a strange collection of talent that somehow meshed and brough the greatest season in team sports to the Forum, at least until MJ's return year.  Wilt sacrificed his ego,  I think he averaged about 10 points per game, grabbed 19 rebounds per, and anchored the middle for a team with a deadeye shooter for a point guard (West), a consumate team player at forward (McMillan), a speedy sharpshooter at off guard (Goodrich), an aging superstar who was the greatest offensive force of his generation at center (Wilt) and some other spare parts who were convinced by Sharman to sacrifice for the team.

What did that team do?  It coompiled a 69-13 record, a 33 game winning streak, and swept to the title over some strong conmpetition including Alcindor and Willis Reed.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 6, 2008 6:54 PM MST   0 recs

i think the number of minutes shaq plays
should be interesting to watch, the players coach D likes tend to get more than their share of minutes, look at hill. I'd be surprised if he was healthy and doing well if we kept his minutes to 25 or less, but, maybe..

all in all, should be a fun couple of weeks once shaq starts playing

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 7:12 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

another best case situation
Here's another little bit that may just be the most cunning.  By trading Marion to the Heat, they may just become super motivated and are sure to start playing better.  They'll start rising up in the division and beat down on Atlanta and start sending Atlanta back into lottery territory and bam, we get their first pick.  Another pipe dream?  Perhaps, but man that would be great.

by frienetic on Feb 6, 2008 8:04 PM MST   0 recs

Hawks-Heat
Remember, the Heat still have that 57 second replay, and play the Hawks at least one other time, maybe that will work out for us.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 7, 2008 5:52 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

heard something funny on ktar
another book by Mcallum coming out, called 25 seconds or less.... haha kills me

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 10:57 PM MST   0 recs

Better Yet
Shaq wants to play here because Jenny Craig is a minority owner.
Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 11:04 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

lol
nice

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 1:19 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

Jenny Craig
A little off topic, but since you mentioned Jenny Craig, I had to add that I just lost 75 pounds on her program.  My wife lost 50.  We couldn't be happier.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 7, 2008 5:54 AM MST   0 recs

The Game/Shaq Trade
First off, that was a great game last night.  Should have gone to 3OT, but Peja hit a great shot.

In regards to the Shaq trade:

Marion did not want to be here or play here anymore. He'd had enough of the trade rumors. If you've been watching the games, you'd notice that lately he'd been mailing it in. With the trade deadline coming up, his name would come up again in trade rumors. Combine that with the All-Star snub, and he'd likely flat-out give up. Think about this: if he disappears in the playoffs when he's happy and satisfied with his place on the team, what do you think he would do in his current mindset in the postseason?

The Suns will take a hit in the standings most likely, but won't drop lower than a 4th seed in the playoffs. Shaq is a playoff player. Even at 36, he can be a dominant player in spurts when he's motivated and happy. We'll run 3-4 man fast breaks (like we've already been doing this season) and pound it in to Shaq when the tempo slows down.

We finally have a weapon to use when the game turns into a grind. Sink Shaq down low, keep Amare high, play the pick & roll and high/low game. Amare has a decent jump shot now too, which will make Marion's offensive game less missed.

Our perimeter defense will suffer short-term, our post defense improves long term. Offensively, we'll have more quality points in the paint, an area usually dominated by dunks instead of grinding.

Shaq is not the player who has the pressure to perform. That person is Boris Diaw. If he continues to defer and not be aggresive offensively, then this trade will sink the team. If he looks for his shot and performs at the level he did when he came to the Suns originally, the loss of Marion will be severely minimized. Plus, DJ Strawberry can do some of the things on perimeter defense that Marion did. That will also help (assuming he gets time).

by Genesius on Feb 7, 2008 11:15 AM MST   0 recs

yep
good thoughts, especially on boris. I was glad to see DJ get some time, I hope also that this continues.

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 11:53 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog devoted to all things Phoenix Suns.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Bsos_logo_small
Shaq to meet Fake Shaq. Letterman or Leno
Rng_podcast-sml_small
Run’N'Gun Ep#63: Suns Play Second Half Switch Offs
Small
Bleeding Orange in Seattle
Side_fat_small
Bring Back Mike
Capt
Player combinations: what makes them great?
Rng_podcast-sml_small
Run N Gun #62 - Suns find a way to win despite a depleted roster
Bsos_logo_small
Show me the lump
Nash_small
Shaquille O'Neal vs. Amaré Stoudemire
Bsos_logo_small
Guess That Punishment
1221068305_small
My Half-Assed Power Rankings 11/17/08

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

RSS Feeds

Bright Side Of The Sun Feeds


Bloggers in Chief

Bsos_logo_small Phoenix Stan

Sunrise_small TexSUN

1221068305_small ZonaFlash

Featured Bloggers

Pintura_skim_small PanamaSun

Side_fat_small JSun

Mark_west_small Mike Lisboa

Rfgd_suns_small Suns Ben

ad

Site Meter