Best Case Scenario - is it worth it?
It's pretty clear that about 75% of Suns fans are in mortal shock right now and the other 25% are smoking crack...ok, maybe just a little happy tabaky.
But what if everything works out perfectly and the Suns actually win the ring with this new "Suns" team. Is it worth it? Is it even still the Suns?
First some assumptions:
- Shaq shows up and is actually healthy, in shape and able to play (forget for a minute what that says about the man's character for jaking the Heat this season)
- The Suns locker room chemistry erupts in rainbows and flowers and proves that Marion was actually a Dementor sucking all the happiness from the team's soul
- Amare and Shaq can share the paint and not turn into Curry and Zebo
- Shaq can play solid D on Duncan, Dampier or Dirk(?), Bynum or Gasol(?), Boozer or Okur (?), Chandler or West (?) and then KG or Sheed and not turn into Ben Wallace with bigger feet and a fatter wallet
- Diaw steps us and give us the consistent Full French (no really, this time he does)
- Hill can take on some of Marion's perimeter D and runs the floor without leaving his ankles at the half court line
- Shaq shows up and is actually healthy, in shape and able to play (this deserves being mentioned twice)
- The Suns get the Heat's lottery pick and are able to get a really good young center like Horford or Odom (oh right, this is the point guard draft and we still need one of those too)
So, assume all that and a Shaq-load more and everything works out swimmingly and the Suns are able to win the ring this year and ask yourself this:
Is it worth it to sell the team's soul to the devil to finally hang a banner in the USAC rafters?
Is it a better option then moving Marion for a few other parts that would include an athletic big like Channing Frye or Johan Petro and another young player or two? Or my favorite option - standing pat and giving this team another run even if it means you lose Marion next year and end up with a ton of cap space to play with.
Does a ring justify a $40 million millstone filling your cap space bathtub?
And most importantly, is a ring worth turning the most exciting show on sneakers into...well into the Heat?
I still say no.
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37 comments
Comments
I Guess I'm a Whore
If it means a championship, though, then it's genius. No brainer.
Of course, those assumptions are pretty far-fetched.
I am sad to see Shawn go, though. But if it means a title, then I'm a back-stabber like that (I should've been a lawyer).
by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 3:14 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'm in agreement with Jsun
For starters
1.Deal with Marion, yes he is a great player, yes he meant a lot to the suns, but with his bitching about stuff, his disappearing act in the playoffs at times, and that he thinks he's worth more money when he's already overpaid, I'm glad he's leaving.
2.Deal with Style of Play being changed
yeah, it's quite likely they won't be as much fun to watch (the suns)
3.Shaq...seriously, look what nash has done for so many players coming to the suns, I think there's a chance here, plus good old rivalry against kobe (for shaq), if that's not motivation, nothing is
If marion isn't in the ring of fire or whatever it's called, he probably deserves to be, he has meant that much to phoenix,
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 3:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Dirty Diesel
We're going to get a lot of pictures of Shaq and Doris over at DirtyScottsdale.com
by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 3:18 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way...
Fortune obviously also favors the prospect of a 6-man Suns Playoff rotation.
by Rand on Feb 6, 2008 3:41 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Not a suns fan
Is there any chance that the Suns would get Miami's pick? I guess not.
I don't know why you guys care so much about winning the championship playing small ball. If you're a true basketball fan you should like teams that play smart ball, fast or slow.
by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 3:49 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
If you're not a Suns fan
by MichiganSunsFan on Feb 6, 2008 3:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a blazers fan
Never been a fan o Marion though, and that's clearly one of the reasons that I think this trade can be good for you guys. I'm also curious to see how amare plays with Shaq, I think we may see a big improvement on his defense and boards.
by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 4:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
also, barbosa is cool, did you ever read the ten part story espn did with him, based on a book the guy traveling with barbosa is writing (or wrote)?
Really a great story and read!!
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I read it
Also loved the story of the prank someone made telling him he was going to get traded to the knicks.
by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 4:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 5:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, nice attitude
In contrast to the attitude of the poster above, we at Blazersedge (http://www.blazersedge.com)would love to hear from Suns fans, and every other kind of fan.
by Leeroy on Feb 7, 2008 10:24 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
As for the point about small ball and the playoff's there's alot I could say here but don't really have the time.
Quick points: Suns this year have transitioned (pun intended) from all small ball ala GSW to a much better half court team that after the secondary break. I have posted about that here before...
I have also said that the Suns need a solid athletic big to sometimes start at center and sometimes backup amare depending on the matchups. I like Channing Frye in that role perhaps or Johan Petro or a guy like Diop or Nazr Mohameed. Those guys are all athletic enough to play out a bit from the paint and not get burned on the pick and roll unlike Shaq but still big enough to man up to a Duncan. Of course, no one guards Duncan 1:1 and shuts him down just like no one can contain CP3, Nash, Amare or Roy.
It takes mobility and teamwork on D and Shaq lacks that.
On offense he doesn't move either and while he passes well out of doubles he can't play away from the hoop which gives Amare less space and he can't play pick and roll w/ Nash and well, he can't move. The Suns half court offense this year is much more like Utah's percision passing cutting screening system and is beautiful to watch with Grant and Diaw able to also move the ball and Amare (and Shawn) to finish anything near the rim and of course good shooters in Bell and Diaw and Nash. This was really coming together and I was looking forward to seeing it in the playoffs.
by Phoenix Stan on Feb 7, 2008 11:21 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe because ...
Like I said above, I hate to see Matrix go but if it brings a title then Kerr is a genius (if not, he's a madman.).
by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 3:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
bruno
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
also
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you in the anti-lakers thing
I saw 3 miami games this season, the one against the suns in Miami and both against the blazers. Shaq played well in all of them, in my opinion.
by Bruno on Feb 6, 2008 4:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Good move
You guys really shouldn't be so concerned with "oh no, it's going to change our style of play"! uhh... BOO-HOO! Look, we are fans of the team because we like them...obviously. But what fans want is victory! You guys can't stand there and spew the bull that says you would rather have a losing team full of atheletes than a winning team of brute strangth. Come on. I doubt the fans in Atlanta are super jazzed about their awesome athletic team...rather, the fans of San Antonio are about as diehard as they come!
This trade allows the Suns to be athletic (with Amare Stoudemire, LB) and also be able to grind it out in the playoffs (Shaq, Brian SKinner, Grant Hill)
by willthehawkhawkins on Feb 6, 2008 3:57 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
yep...
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
This just in
by TexSUN on Feb 6, 2008 4:06 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
wow,
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
This maty not be the end of 7 seconds or less
I'm always hopeful for the Suns but I also try to be realistic about the team and I have been feeling this group was not quite going to get it done this year. They haven't seemed to have the fire that we've witnessed the last few years. I've had home and away Marion jerseys in my closet since he was drafted, the Suns are going to miss him, but the writing was on the wall there and he was all but certain to be gone by the end of the season anyway.
As I've thought about this trade all day, I'm beginning to talk myself into seeing how this could work. Nash is the offense here, and he is still going to be. I'm hoping this is the end of the season-long trend of every center in the league having a career night against Amare in the middle. Plus the post-game interviews from "The Big Mumble" will be awesome.
by SoCalSun on Feb 6, 2008 4:18 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
yep
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 4:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
coupla things
- This looks like Steve Kerr saying, where is the team that i saw when i was on tnt watching you guys?" He (and myself) doesn't see the fire that everyone had when it was "the good ole days" with diaw as the center or Barbosa blazing too fast for the tv guys to keep up. I personally became a suns fan when the Nash came to town and I was awed by how they played like they had nothing to lose (plus, when i played, i always wanted to be a player like Nash). Perhapsibly Kerr's thinking that his team needs some life forcibly pumped into those zombiotic (is that a word?) bodies we tend to see, especially against the lower tier or Eastern Conference teams. Playoff-wise, its a whole new ballgame and the best team doesn't always win. Shaq is and always will be a guy who cracks jokes and lightens the mood while trying to lumber that large anatomy of his down the floor. I remember somewhere that Nash even admitted that playing this year doesn't seem nearly as fun as the previous seasons because of the load of expectations that have been thrust upon them. A jovial and happy presence in the locker room is always more welcome than a sour and jealous one. The best move that Kerr or Sarver or anyone else can make is keeping everyone motivated, fired up, and wanting to come into "work" every day.
- My immediate response to the move was not unlike Nancy Kerrigan's after Harding but without the physical pain part. I could not comprehend why the team would up and decide to lose their identity. But after thinking about it, I am pretty sure that (when/if?)we beat Duncan, Ginobili, Kobe, Dirk, CP,and capture the title later this year, I will not be so unhappy about this trade. Victory overcomes all other emotions (usually).
by jacksonian on Feb 6, 2008 5:07 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Is it...
by TheyCallMePhil on Feb 6, 2008 5:46 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Tone down a bit
by PurplePinoy on Feb 6, 2008 6:01 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
possible outcome
- We are rid of Marcus Banks and his contract - Many have called for this and pointed out that not only is he a black hole with the ball, his attitude is a definite locker room problem. I remember when he sored 40 points in the summer league game, many thought Miami was a good fit for him.
- People seem to forget that Shawn asked for a trade. Unless he rescinded that request, you can bet the FO never forgot the demand. It was clear the way he played in several single digit scoring games that his heart was not in it.
3. Amare was limited by playing center. Also, the fire that was in his eyes in 04-05 has not returned on a consistent basis, perhaps due to the strain of guarding centers, and the pressure cooker that was his relationship with Shawn.
See exhibit A - the 1972 Lakers. Wilt Chamberlain spent most of the 70-71 season willing his body to play through the aches and pains of a devastating knee injury the year before. Even though he played well at times in the finals against the Knicks, he really wasn't right until the 1971 season, and in 1970-71, he had to deal with Lew Alcindor. Also, it was clear that Elgin Baylor was not going to fit in with Bill Sharman's share the wealth team concept, so he retired rather than drag his knees through another season bickering with the Big Dipper.
What you had left was a strange collection of talent that somehow meshed and brough the greatest season in team sports to the Forum, at least until MJ's return year. Wilt sacrificed his ego, I think he averaged about 10 points per game, grabbed 19 rebounds per, and anchored the middle for a team with a deadeye shooter for a point guard (West), a consumate team player at forward (McMillan), a speedy sharpshooter at off guard (Goodrich), an aging superstar who was the greatest offensive force of his generation at center (Wilt) and some other spare parts who were convinced by Sharman to sacrifice for the team.
What did that team do? It coompiled a 69-13 record, a 33 game winning streak, and swept to the title over some strong conmpetition including Alcindor and Willis Reed.
by Hawk42 on Feb 6, 2008 6:54 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
i think the number of minutes shaq plays
all in all, should be a fun couple of weeks once shaq starts playing
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 7:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
another best case situation
by frienetic on Feb 6, 2008 8:04 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Hawks-Heat
by Hawk42 on Feb 7, 2008 5:52 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
heard something funny on ktar
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 6, 2008 10:57 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Better Yet
by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 11:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Jenny Craig
by Hawk42 on Feb 7, 2008 5:54 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The Game/Shaq Trade
In regards to the Shaq trade:
Marion did not want to be here or play here anymore. He'd had enough of the trade rumors. If you've been watching the games, you'd notice that lately he'd been mailing it in. With the trade deadline coming up, his name would come up again in trade rumors. Combine that with the All-Star snub, and he'd likely flat-out give up. Think about this: if he disappears in the playoffs when he's happy and satisfied with his place on the team, what do you think he would do in his current mindset in the postseason?
The Suns will take a hit in the standings most likely, but won't drop lower than a 4th seed in the playoffs. Shaq is a playoff player. Even at 36, he can be a dominant player in spurts when he's motivated and happy. We'll run 3-4 man fast breaks (like we've already been doing this season) and pound it in to Shaq when the tempo slows down.
We finally have a weapon to use when the game turns into a grind. Sink Shaq down low, keep Amare high, play the pick & roll and high/low game. Amare has a decent jump shot now too, which will make Marion's offensive game less missed.
Our perimeter defense will suffer short-term, our post defense improves long term. Offensively, we'll have more quality points in the paint, an area usually dominated by dunks instead of grinding.
Shaq is not the player who has the pressure to perform. That person is Boris Diaw. If he continues to defer and not be aggresive offensively, then this trade will sink the team. If he looks for his shot and performs at the level he did when he came to the Suns originally, the loss of Marion will be severely minimized. Plus, DJ Strawberry can do some of the things on perimeter defense that Marion did. That will also help (assuming he gets time).
by Genesius on Feb 7, 2008 11:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
yep
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 11:53 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs



















