Suns Dethrone Kings: 127 - 99 - Bright Side Of The Sun

Suns Dethrone Kings: 127 - 99

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 15, 2008 10:30 PM MDT in Game Coverage Comment 40 comments

I am making this recap short. There's not much to say is there.

The game was close with the Suns up 1pt early in the second quarter when they went on an epic run to outscore the Kings 42-14 in the second.

The Kings, I should say Ron Artest, played hard in the 3rd and outscored the Suns 31-22 but the boys put it away and closed out in nice fashion.

Skinner got some solid minutes in the first after Amare had a few quick fouls and the bench in general was awesome led by Gordan Giricek.

Player of the Game

Amare was unbelievable. He is right now as explosive and creative as anyone in the game. Totally unstoppable.

Runner Up Player of the Game

Gordan Giricek really looked sharp hitting open three's, driving and scoring in a few different ways. I take back all the bad things I said and thought about this pick up. This guy really adds some depth to the bench and brings a different element with his all around game. Bravo GG.

Boxscore AP Recap (Yahoo!) Arizona Republic Sactown Royalty

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Do you

Still hate the trade, and blame Shaq? :)

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Mar 15, 2008 10:45 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I do yes :)

Seriously, I still don't like the trade. The slump was a direct result of the trade and I don't know yet if the Suns are better then they were.

They are just now getting back to where they would have been anyway. This team was a top team before and they are a top team now. We will just have to wait and see if they are good enough to beat the best in West come April and May. We certainly are better in some areas (rebounding) and worse in others (perimeter D).

I still think there were better moves and I still would have liked to have seen them make the run w/ Shawn and then blow it up.

And lets not forget that this trade will have a huge impact for two more years and $40m more.

That all doesn't mean I am not going to enjoy the ride in the meantime!

Where pale leaders

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 15, 2008 10:52 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotta disagree with you

The Suns, right now, are better than they've been all year (Minnesota anyone ??).

I'll concede that that they're not yet as good as last year's squad, but they are close, and possibly better defensively. It's clear that part of the reason for the recent slump has been an unfocused Amare, and an injured Steve Nash. You add the task of fitting in Shaq to that mix....

The thing you take from the last few games is that the Suns are in rhythm, in a way they haven't been all year. And that makes them dangerous.

by Pliny the Elder on Mar 15, 2008 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Suns

They seem to be better than they were. We couldn't beat the Spurs or the Warriors before, and now we did. We did beat the Queens and Memphis so bad that they should have quitted playing basketball. If we beat the crap out of Detroit, then I'll believe again that this team will get the championship. But I didn't believe with Shawn earlier this season.

So what about the impact? It's not like we ever sign our draft picks, or play them! :)

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Mar 15, 2008 11:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's not forget

The Suns did beat the Spurs earlier this year and before the trade they were rolling. They blew out a few teams and won a grind it out came at the Cavs with 4th Qtr D.

Sure, they dropped a few dumb games but show me a team that hasn't? The C's lost to the Bobcats and Wiz and Denver and the Warriors. The Spurs lost to the Grizz. The Jazz lose just about every road game. Its a long season. You can't say that b/c the Suns lost twice to the T-wolves that means they couldn't compete in the playoff's.

This was a team that was trying to peak at the right time and sure they slacked off early in the year. Now its late and the race is tight they had better be playing hard. And the pre-trade team would be playing hard now too. They wouldn't still be in training camp mode as Nash just said they were after the last win. They would be fine tuning a squad that had the most playoff experience as a group next to the aging Spurs.

Btw - the Spurs are playing like crap right now anyway and and we beat the Warriors w/o Shaq. You can't honestly tell me that against the Warriors we are better off w/ the Shaq then with Marion?

We lost a very close game in Oakland in that last one and besides, no one believes that in the West the Warriors are the team to beat.

I guess we will never know if the pre-trade team could have done it and we will know in a few months if this team gets it done.

Regardless, the trade was a huge risk and as well as they are playing now it all comes down to winning three series against 3 great teams to get to the finals and you can't honestly tell me that this team is a lock to do that. Just like I can't tell you that the pre-trade team would have been a lock.

Its new. Its exciting to see Shaq dive in the stands. But its a tremendous gamble that we will be living with until 2010.

Where pale leaders

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 16, 2008 5:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree with your shaq comments

But, 2 things have been looking to be true.

The Suns can still play very effective speed ball without Shaq and win against teams that would run shaq off the floor (which really g.s. is the strongest of the speed teams in my mind).
The Suns do need shaq and have drastically changed their rebounding vs other teams stats. It's not all about shaq being so awesome, its about many things. 3 above all else

***

Shaq is at center freeing amare to play where he needs to be
Shaq vs spurs/lakers/others where we are definitely better with shaq than marion
Shaq has a type of fun and hustle while playing

that we simply weren't within a million miles of the last 1-2 years. Maybe the team 2-3 years ago had some of this, but I've never seen this type of chemistry as a suns fan. I think Shaq is worth every penny

Plus the suns closing the lanes, Hill sliding in to be second defender to stop driver, etc. I haven't seen the suns play defense like they have in large spurts over the last 4 games in 10+ years! I'm glad the Suns had the guts to unload Marion, could've we gotten more for the trade, definitely, could've we gotten a better leader to come to the team and not try and take over, no.

Seriously, point in case, my wife hates Shaq, but after seeing him and hearing him the last 10+ games, that's not the case anymore. In the last game against the Kings, Shaq was sent to the floor and got hit in the package. He was sent to the bench a few seconds later and the cameras caught Bell, and 3-4 other suns players falling out of their chairs laughing at Shaq, teasing him, etc. My wife and I have never seen that sort of fun on this team. Not with Marion bitching all the time. Granted Amare had/has issues also, but those seemed to go away with marion going and shaq coming.

srp, let me ask you this though, if the suns win this yr (the title), and some/a lot?? credit will be given towards shaq, I'm sure. Will this bother you? Also, can't say enough about giri and that pickup. He can create off the dribble, something marion couldn't do to save his life

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 16, 2008 6:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

We were +9 with Shaq in the game

before the refs took him out of the game.

The comment about the Spurs is well-taken, they don't seem to be playing well - surprising, this time of year.

More to come, but the SUNS seem to have a lot of upside.

I'm in Nobs camp - I didn't believe in the team earlier this year, but now I'm willing to. I would rather try something different and possibly lose, than to stand pat and lose.

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 16, 2008 7:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK I'm not srp...

...but since I haven't posted anything for a couple of days (long story) and since my opinion of Shaq coming into this thing was a lot like your wife's, here are a couple of thoughts:

I do think the hustle, and maybe just the "legend" status of Shaq has rejuvenated this team. It's sad that it had to happen this way, because IMO, we really shouldn't have needed this trade for this team to play to its potential and be excited about its chances, but it is what it is.
I do think Shaq helps us in certain matchups. However, I'm still seeing long stretches where the Suns seem to play better without Shaq on the floor than with him. I would offer that the recent surge is as much about the Suns learning to adjust to the absence of Marion as it is about Shaq coming in to save the day.
Speaking of which, in answer to your last question, if the Suns win the title (still a very big "IF" IMO) and Shaq gets most/all of the credit, you'd better believe it will "bother" me. I really hate that "big guy comes to save the day" philosophy, and I'm still pretty peeved the Suns weren't able to get it done the unconventional way. But say this turns out to be the year it happens, I will certainly be cheering and happy, but at the same time, with a small sense of regret that it didn't happen without the Big Acquisition. And if the Suns do win it, and anybody not named Steve Nash or Amare Stoudemire ends up with Finals MVP, it will be an insult to all the hard work and suffering this team has put in the past three seasons.

by TexSUN on Mar 16, 2008 7:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's all about Steve Nash

The reason Shaq is so important to this team offensively is because he's such a good passer out of the post and, with Sabonis, the best passing center since Walton.

Contrary to popular belief, Steve Nash was pretty good before he came back to Phoenix, but he wasn't any better than when he teamed up with Nick Van Exel, because he had someone else in the backcourt who could pass the ball. He now has that option in both the post and at the 3, which is a unique position for him to be in (I shudder to think how many titles the Lakers would have won had they drafted Nash instead of Fisher).

The team's troubles this season have stemmed from a lack or fragility of rhythm, both offensively and defensively. Getting Shaq puts everybody in their natural position, which means that the Suns don't have to depend so much on the offensive rhythm being perfect in order to win big games. The last few games would seem to indicate that the team, and Steve in particular may have overcome that rhythm problem and that the Five Fingers Offense is now able to form a fist again. We'll know for sure when we play Detroit again.

In the meantime, should the Suns win the NBA title, Shaq will get his due credit as the missing piece, like he did in Miami. But you can bet your ass that Amare will hog the limelight. I'd bet dollars to pesos on that one.

by Pliny the Elder on Mar 16, 2008 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remember when it was

the prevailing thinking that the SUNS playing out of position (especially Amare and Marion) was the key to their success? For example, McCallum's book suggested that Marion was actually fairly generic at the three, but excelled at the four. People also thought, and it was true in the case of getting all-star bids, Amare seemed better at the five?

It's interesting that there are so many reasons now to the contrary. I'm trying to get a handle on which really is correct.

Oh, I cannot imagine Amare after a title. His marketing heads will roll after that one.

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 17, 2008 2:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give Amare some credit

Look, I think Amare deserves a lot of credit for what he hasn't done. Think about Vince Carter and T-Mac back in the Toronto days. Those guys were cousins and couldn't share the spotlight or the ball.

I think Amare has been great about playing his role and focusing on getting better. He clearly is a top 3 to 5 player in this game but gave up a lot of points to try and fit into the team's system and try and play D as a center. He's clearly put in the effort to improve his shot. Compare that to other talented players like Chris Wilcox or even Dwight Howard. Or - gasp - Tim Thomas.

I have a lot of respect for Amare as a player and as a person. Sure, I don't agree with everything he says and does but he's also only 25. He's maturing and improving and deserves to get at least as much pub as a guy like D-Wade.

Miami - where Marion isn't happening

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 17, 2008 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

srp

good thoughts, I agree. On Amare and the all start voting, there's little question it was easier for him to get into the all star game as a center, there are few good centers in the league, but many great forwards. But I feel Amare is actually better than Kobe and Lebron in a few areas.

As a finisher
ok...I just realized who I was comparing him to,

that's tough...I'd pick Amare right after Kobe and Lebron.

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 17, 2008 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great point...

never thought about it like that.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Mar 17, 2008 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Living with until 2010?

Nah, Isiah will still be taking our max contracts until then.

If it all crashes, we just make the phone call, "Have we got a deal for you..."

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 16, 2008 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Need answers before condemning trade

Having a disgruntled player on your team helps no one. Let's not forget that Shawn did ask for a trade, there seemed to be a locker room problem with him, and (most importantly) we do not know what Kerr's actual trade options were. It is possible that Shaq was the best he could do. Remember, The Gasol trade had already been made. Who else was a realistic possibility? I've heard a lot of suggestions, but I have never heard of concrete options that Kerr had.

In the light of what I just said, I really don't have a problem with the trade, until someone comes up wih a better trade that was on the table and was passed up by Kerr. Also, the Shaq trade has nothing to do with not having picks until 2010.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 17, 2008 5:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I am just stuborn

I have been impressed with Shaq since he's been here. His effort and positive effect on the fans and team and just general fun he's brought has been a deffinate positive.
On the court he has clearly had two huge benefits. Rebounding and allowing Amare to play the 4. Let's not forget though that Amare started playing well before Shaq arrived but that's another matter. Amare clearly is thriving by not having to play (or at least start) at center. He has also started to impact interior defense but on the other hand teams with bigs that can shoot are getting a lot of open looks.
I had argued since last off season that they needed to get a center to address these issues and while I can't give you a specific deal, there are too many of these guys that have been moved for little money to tell me we couldn't have gotten a guy like Diop or Nazr Mohammed without having to trade Marion. That would have allowed the Suns to go big against some teams but also have a more mobile defensive Center against teams like Utah, LA and NOH.
I totally agree that Giri is turning out to be a MUCH better pick up then I was imagined. He could be the difference maker. But, he's also reportedly a very streaky player and strikes me as a guy that could get his feelings hurt by something and go on a prolonged slump. So far though, I am impressed w/ him and right now with he, Diaw and LB our bench is looking pretty potent.
And finally, to answer your question: IF the Suns should win the ring this year then yes, Shaq will get a lot of credit and probably will deserve it. I had once said that even if they won the ring, that I would still be against it. I am not so sure now. They have changed their offense but haven't gone "All Shaq" and are still running their plays both with and without him on the floor. In other words, offensively they are still enjoyable to watch. And since the Philly game they are playing hard.
My final point is my first. This team is back to where they were before the trade. The slump was a direct result of the trade and you can just listen to Nash and Coach to beleive that. While the pre-trade team wasn't as jovial, they certainly would be playing hard at this point in the season and let's not forget how much progress they had made this year to improve their half court offense without relying on Nash so much. Oh, and my secret hope isn't that the Knicks take on Shaq's contract. Its that they win this year and he retires on top.

Miami - where Marion isn't happening

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 17, 2008 8:30 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

And for the record

I have no problem eating crow on this one. I hope Shaq does all those things you guys are saying.

But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves either. All this team has done is beat a slumping Spurs team (who I said months ago wasn't as good as the best in the West);
destroyed two bottom dwellers (which he did before the trade too);
and beat a GSW team that they should beat. The Warriors are fun but they don't move the ball and rely on individual guys playing great and hitting from three. As Suns fans know well, you can win that way but you can't win consistently without an inside threat. The Suns won that game b/c Diaw and Grant matchup well and b/c Amare is unstoppable in general and against the Warriors they don't have a chance. That's a game the Suns w/o Shaq should win 3 out of 5 times.

Miami - where Marion isn't happening

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 17, 2008 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

but

before the shaq trade, our defense energy was close to 0, and we were dropping games to teams that barely should even be in the nba. There's no question now, we're a stronger team. We can now play 2 styles, not just one. We haven't been able to do 2 well in over a decade, or longer.

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 17, 2008 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

teams that shouldn't be in the NBA

That opens up one of my pet topics, that of teams that shouldn't be in the league. I have long been a proponent of a rule that puts teams on a 'probation' if they miss the playoffs for 5 years in a row, then revokes the franchise for missing ten years in a row. The probation would involve something like no lottery pick or something. This would encourage better management and stop tanking.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 17, 2008 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come on now

Our defense was not that bad. It was ranked 11th and was certainly getting better.

Like I said, over an 82 game season every team is going to lose games they shouldn't. And teams that have the best regular seasons records (as we well know) don't always win the ring. Show me one "great" team that hasn't lost games to the bottom feeders. That was just early season lack of attention.

I agree about the need to play two styles. We are better for that. We could have done that though by keeping Shawn and not taking on Shaq who takes up lots of space in the lane and also aobut 1/3 of the total salary cap.

Miami - where Marion isn't happening

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 17, 2008 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

5th seed?

I know this is probably a bush league question but why are we not above Utah in the standings? Suns at .667 and Jazz at .647...

I noticed we jumped over the Spurs though... very nice. I'll be rooting for the Rockets over Fakers tomorrow!

by Travis on Mar 15, 2008 10:49 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Utah is the NW Div leader

so the top 4 seeds are the division leaders and then from there its based on win/loss.

If we were to be the 5th and Utah the 4th and we had the better record we would have home court though. Genius system isn't it.

Where pale leaders

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 15, 2008 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hornets?

... I thought that was it until I noticed there are only 3 divisions and the Hornets are in 3rd place overall, ahead of the division leading Jazz... but the Hornets are in second in there division, just like the Suns.

It's the Hornets being in third place that has me all confused. They're not leading anything but are ranked based on win/loss, right?

by Travis on Mar 15, 2008 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's why:

The Brackets in 2005-2006 were:

Western Conference W L W-L%

[1] San Antonio Spurs*     63     19     .768
[2] Phoenix Suns*     54     28     .659
[3] Denver Nuggets*     44     38     .537
[4] Dallas Mavericks     60     22     .732
[5] Memphis Grizzlies     49     33     .598
[6] Los A Clippers     47     35     .573
[7] Los A Lakers     45     37     .549
[8] Sacramento Kings      44      38      .537

In this case, the Dallas Mavericks got screwed. They had the second best record, but had to meet the top-ranked Spurs in the second round.

Of course they do not get home-court advantage against the top ranked team. In the new system, the Mavs would be rightly ranked second and the Suns third and the Nugs fourth.

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 15, 2008 11:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Following the Suns

POs two years ago, there were changes in the playoff ordering. It used to be the 3 div leaders were 1,2 and 3 with homecourt in the first round irrespective of ranking with non-division leaders.

This lead playoff bracket that seemed unfair, so they made 2 changes:

[1] All teams with better records get homecourt advantage in the first round. This eliminates the advantage to division leaders with worse records.
[2] The Division leaders are bracketed in the first four spots, rather than the first three, allowing weaker division leaders to be placed lower in the bracket.

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 15, 2008 11:13 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Record

Three of the top four are reserved for the Division leaders, but the seeds are still ranked by win/loss.

So to crack into the top four you need to have at least the fourth best record in your conference or lead your division.

by hcblankscreen on Mar 15, 2008 11:20 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Much appreciated...

... props to hcblankscreen for the very simple breakdown. I know... I'm retarded.

Living in Utah and driving around with a massive Suns decal on my back window, I just needed to be clear on why the Jazzercise were still ahead of the Suns. Now I can get back to trash talking the neighbors....

by Travis on Mar 15, 2008 11:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll be sure to spare myself any effort

the next time you ask a question... :)

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 16, 2008 1:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

okay...

... just spreading some love to the "new guy" for blowing me away with a very simple 2-line explanation that was spot on.

*Future Disclaimer: Any and all future attempts at concept explanation, breakdown, definition, personal expression, rule description, hand holding, illustration, speculation, reasoning, historical reference and/or any and all effort spent in the act of posting response to my future questions is heretofore and forever given my deepest of appreciation and gratitude.

**this disclaimer is hereby enacted retroactively... specifically to zonaflash.

by Travis on Mar 16, 2008 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

yawn

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 16, 2008 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

blah blah blah

Seriously, you can't just let it go? I enjoy reading your stuff and your replies are sincerely appreciated... what's with the attitude? Egos and blogging.

I thank a new guy for sharing a thought and you jump on me for not heaping praise on you for a couple replies.... get over yourself. Sigh.

by Travis on Mar 16, 2008 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey

I'm not attacking you. I'm not even defending myself against your bleeding sarcasm.

There's a difference between common courtesy and egomania. Alrighty?

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 16, 2008 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its funny

anyone who has spent time on the Internets runs into these little "battles" like this one.

Usually it's pretty clear how they start. But honestly, I am totally missing the trigger this time.

Miami - where Marion isn't happening

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 17, 2008 8:13 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I'm the wierd one...

... cause apparently getting told off after thanking someone is normal to some people. I say thank you to someone just to have this random user reply to my "thank you" and essentially tell me...

"I guess that's the last time I ever respond to you and your questions, cause you didn't thank me too... but hey, here's a little smiley face :) so it's all in good fun."

Personally, I can do without the blog divas.

by Travis on Mar 17, 2008 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Putting on the moderator hat for a second

Could we please have a cease-fire?

by TexSUN on Mar 17, 2008 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

enough already

Thanks, Tex. Sounds like my kids. Or maybe the US Congress in session.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 17, 2008 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's the big deal

I'm with you, SRP. I read it over a couple of times and don't get it.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 17, 2008 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grant Hill's injury

Will he rest and play less in the next two (easier) games again Portland and Seattle?

by sonicking on Mar 16, 2008 7:18 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Gordan

I just corrected myself a few games ago. It's Gordan with an "a" not Gordon with two "o"s.

Shaq's coming on strong. Even against GSW when he didn't play too much, he did a decent job. The Suns made their wurn without him, and that's probably expected.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Mar 16, 2008 11:00 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs