Suns Fall Flat to Celtics (117-97)

by TexSUN on Mar 26, 2008 8:39 PM MDT in Game Coverage

I feel like I just stepped into a science fiction movie and traveled a month into the past. The February Suns made an appearance tonight, and if you were watching the Suns in those first weeks after the Shaq trade last month, then you know that's not a good thing. Fresh off a competitive loss to a Pistons team that delivered one of the most embarrassing losses of the season a month ago, the Suns laid a king-size ostrich egg against the Celtics tonight against whom, ironically, they looked good in Shaq's second game after the trade.

So what the heck happened? Well, for one thing, the Suns looked like they had a serious case of the "no energy"'s in the early going, and quickly found themselves in a 15-point hole. They came roaring back in the second quarter to tie the game at halftime, but the second half was basically a repeat of the first quarter times two. Credit the Celtics for playing great defense, and for crashing the boards hard. (Dis)credit the Suns for falling prey to a couple of old nemeses--turnovers and giving up offensive rebounds, which totally negated a 56% to 52% edge from the field. The turnovers and offensive rebounds conspired to give the Celtics 18 more shot attempts than the Suns. That's a sure-fire recipe for an "L".

The turnovers didn't come from Steve Nash tonight. He just had one (to go with nine assists, eight of which came in the first half). The main culprits were Amare (5), Shaq (4), and Raja (4). There have been a couple of games recently that it seemed like Amare was forcing passes and picking up an uncharacteristically high number of turnovers. I wonder if someone told him that to win an MVP award he has to make like Nash with the play-making, and now he's trying a little too hard? [Update: Looking back over some of my live blogging comments in the game thread, at least two of Amare's turnovers tonight were due to traveling after he caught the pass, not trying to make the pass himself. I do remember one play where he tried to make a Nash-like pass up the court and threw it straight into the hands of the Celtics, though.]
The Suns had 21 turnovers and 27 rebounds. The Celtics had 14 turnovers and 41 rebounds, 17 of which were of the cringe-inducing offensive variety. That's your ballgame right there.
I almost hate to mention this after some of the comments earlier today, but in a win over the Cavaliers tonight, Chris Paul set up David West for the wide-open game winner, keeping the Hornets in the Western Conference's top spot. It was the 20th assist of the game for CP3, moving him ahead of Nash by micro-percentage points in assists per game this season. With the Suns relying less on Nash to make plays these days, and with CP3 on an absolute tear, the guess here is that the Hornets playmaker will earn his very first (and well deserved) assist title. I know it's "Kobe's year" to win the MVP, and I'm even starting to come around to that idea a little with him playing hurt and all, but CP3 is just having an awesome season. Here's hoping he'll be at the top of the list (along with Amare and Steve, of course ) a year from now.
It was a rough night all around for Steve. First he loses the assist lead to CP3, then he loses the game. Sandwiched in between, he ended up on the wrong side of a crossover, ankle-breaker of a play by Rajon Rondo that he won't live down for the rest of the road trip. This was a "poster", point guard style. Expect to see it again and again on the highlights tonight.
I have to take some responsibility for tonight's debacle. I swore off of making predictions about the outcome last month, and the Suns hadn't had a truly awful game since. But today, I let myself get sucked into making one on another blog, thinking as long as I kept it off of BSotS, then it would be fine. WRONG!!! That does it. No more predictions from me AT ALL. Not here, not anywhere.

Player of the Game: Kevin Garnett gets the statistical nod, but this was really just a great team effort by the Celtics.

Runner-Up: ESPN, for sparing us a few seconds of this awfulness by cutting over to the final seconds of the Hornets-Cavs game. Normally I'd get ticked at something like this, but tonight it was warmly welcomed.

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frustrating

I think I'm going to take a break from following the Suns for a while, at least until the playoffs. All these shenanigans are messing with my head, and I can't handle it anymore. I'll see ya'll at the end of April.

parallel universe

by SilverSprings on Mar 26, 2008 9:08 PM MDT 0 recs

tough times with predictions, eh?

Given the commentary above, in the unlikely event that our respective franchises do meet in June to celebrate the 32nd anniversary of our victory in '76, forget the refereeing help you mentioned, TS: I'll simply be begging you to come on and predict Suns victories every night...

...just messing with you, of course. Thanks again for coming on over at CB and for giving us the chance to spout off here as well. Always a pleasure.

Some other random thoughts:

-What a first half from Amare. He's really something else.
-X-factor or not, how ugly is Gordan Giricek? I really can't even look at that dude.
-Love the quote you have atop the right sidebar from Shaq. That's a classic.

Great work as always.

-sw

by Steve Weinman on Mar 26, 2008 9:49 PM MDT 0 recs

tough game but...

let's see how the next few games play out. I was listening to the 103.3 radio here in Dallas after being on the road selling something a few minutes ago. And to my surprise, they were talking nba and they were talking about the suns. They said (even after tonights game), it's clear to them that the suns were a championship caliber team and were 1 of 6 teams in the west that could win it all. (Dallas, Denver, and G.S not being part of those 6). They said Amare offensively was playing out of his mind.

My points, nice to get respect. It's a shame we didn't play skinner. Energy and rebounding, there's the game.

We've seen games like this before with the Suns where there energy level is very low. That's got to be frustrating for a lot of people seeing 2 different teams on different nights. Which team will show up next? Very interesting point about Nash and 1 turnover...great to hear this.

On C.Paul, the way he is playing, and his team, he deserves the mvp and the assists title without a doubt.

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 26, 2008 10:36 PM MDT 0 recs

I would not want to be Dick Bavetta right now...

Ok, I wouldn't ever want to be Dick Bavetta, but check out the photo on the latest AZ Republic article.

Nash looks like he's about to bite Bavetta's head off. Literally.

by TexSUN on Mar 26, 2008 10:40 PM MDT 0 recs

Not that bad

This was one of those games that the final score really didn't tell the full story. The Suns were still able to score the ball and like TexSun said it was the turnovers and rebounds that killed us.

They are big up front and their role players like Davis and Powe play hard. I would have loved to see more Skinner and less Diaw in this one to help on the glass when Shaq was out. Or maybe Diaw and Skinner together w/ Amare to give some size and a bit more scoring while Grant recovers. He fell hard again on that wrist tonight early.

The turnovers will improve. Its one thing to play well against some teams and another to be crisp against a great defense like Boston's. There's still some learning to be done. I also thought the pressure of the game especially after losing in Detroit got to them a bit.

Amare is trying to improve his passing which is leading to more turnovers as well. He had 3 travels of his 5 so all in all that's not horrible of as many touches as he's getting. He realizes that as his dominance increases he's going to draw more doubles and more attention which was exactly what happened in the 3rd qtr. Amare has to keep trying to make those passes. I don't think its about trying to be C-Web. He just needs to be good enough to make the right pass at the right time. He'll get there.

Not to make too many more excuses but the C's after two embarassing 2nd half let downs wanted this game and they played just that much harder.

And Hill still isn't right and I think that injury to Raja came just at the wrong time.

Next up Philly Friday. The Suns just need to put this one away and bounce back. No worries.

Phx - where grammar happens

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 26, 2008 10:42 PM MDT 0 recs

Zone Defense

Upon further reflection, I am a bit puzzeled by why Coach D went to the zone D so often.

I kind of get it against teams like Utah, LA and Detroit that have a jump shooting center. The Celtic's do not have that.

The zone let's Shaq stay nearer to the rim and not get pulled out to cover a guy like Okur on the 3 pt line.

But against the Celtics I just didn't get it. Especially after Garnett started picking it apart w/ the high-low game - catching the ball in the middle of the lane near the FT line and passing to a cutter on the baseline. The C's did a great job attacking the middle of the zone and also this contributed to the offensive rebounds b/c in a zone the defender doesn't have a man to block out.

My guess is that the Suns want to be able to play a zone in key situations against some teams in the playoffs and used this game as a sort of experiment / practice to get the guys used to it more.

The Suns pre-Shaq hardly every used a zone D and if they did it was with the second unit. So this is all new. Boris especially was lost several times.

It was kind of like the Spurs not showing you their "real" stuff during the regular season knowing that in the playoffs they are going to have some surprises for you.

If that's the case, its either a super ballsy arrogant brilliant move or just plan dumb. That pretty much sums up the Suns season.

Phx - where grrrrr happens

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 27, 2008 7:33 AM MDT up 0 recs

The Suns have never been that crafty

I think the suns were playing to win. They always play with their best stuff.

If they lose they tweak, if they win they keep doing it until you beat them.

Coaching strategies aside, every strategy looks bad if the team comes out flat. Hard to judge zone/no zone when our team played the way it did.

One think I can think of right off the bat: if our zone was that bad and the Celtics were eating us alive, just think how bad our Nash/Shaq P'N'R defense must be that D'Antoni prefers the zone!!!!

by ZonaFlash on Mar 27, 2008 11:47 AM MDT up 0 recs

Good point

on them not being that crafty. Still, I don't think it was as much energy and them playing this zone A LOT. Far more then normal.

I also don't recall the C's doing a ton of p/r when we weren't in the zone. Could be wrong. I haven't rewatched the game.

Phx - where grrrrr happens

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 27, 2008 12:31 PM MDT up 0 recs

Just Awful

The only refreshing thing is that we can be pretty sure this was an anomoly. If we were the Hawks and getting pounded, then there would be something to worry about.

Amare was great again, though, wasn't he? He wasn't getting any help. The Suns used to lose games when Nash was playing awesome and not getting any help.

To paraphrase/bastardize the Bard: "There's nothing new under the Sun ... only different names."

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Mar 26, 2008 10:51 PM MDT 0 recs

I didn't like the Suns

In this game. We lacked a lot of things to beat the Celtics. Still, we played great in the second quarter, and 3 more out of that one would have gave us the W.

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Mar 26, 2008 11:04 PM MDT 0 recs

Sigh

Well there were some positives. A scant few at least. Boris did show up to play tonight. THANK GOD!!! STAT was playing like some Nordic god of offense. Also Shaq played pretty well.

Sadly enough though those good things were few and far between, after the second quarter at least. Barbosa unable to get anything going at all limited are bench mightily. Bell and Hill still playing hurt showed and showed often. Not to mention all those stupid turnovers when we could neigh afford them.

Overall we didnt come out with even half the focus needed to beat one of the best (if not the best) teams in the league. Yet despite this loss the Suns are still a team that is working at getting better and has a lot of room to get better. Heck, despite our recent win streak this is still a team that is adjusting to the trade. They just have to go into the playoffs strong, and to do so they must bounce back from craptastic games like this.

PS: reading Casey at the Bat before any Suns game may be bad luck.

"Of old, the Skillful Warrior first ensured his own invulnerability;then he waited for the enemy's vulnerability." Sun Tzu

by Turambar on Mar 26, 2008 11:41 PM MDT 0 recs

on barbosa

I think Barbosa was very similar to Marion, he flourishes on the fast break, but unless his three point shooting is on (and it often is), otherwise he's quiet. The Celtics do a great job of man to man defense and with the exception of Amare, were able to stop us. Energy, we lacked it, they had it

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 27, 2008 1:04 AM MDT 0 recs

just got back from game.......sigh

The no energy thing really hits it on the head. They wanted it more than us and it showed. Most of all, it showed in Steve. This was one of the worst games I have ever seen Steve play. He didn't seem to thrilled about dealing with Rondo's full court pressure and just could not get into the lane. I thought we found it in the second quarter, but the back to back turnovers to start the 3rd quarter did not bode well for the rest of the game.

Amare was outright forcing the issue tonight, sure he got numbers. Perhaps he was trying to take his frustration from the Detroit (or should I say Sheed loss) and ended up turning the ball over and taking several heavily contested shots . He also seemed to forget about that midrange jumper today in exchange for putting his head down and going to the rim (two travels tonight?).

Grant Hill didnt even have a chance to get going with those early fouls (the first one for someone running over his leg while his back was turned and guarding someone else!).

Shaq did alright tonight although I feel that Boston was kind of baiting us to throw it down to him under the guise of Shaq cant beat us.

Leandro tonight=vomit=Eddie F*cking House making those threes against us

Things Boston did to beat us:

Wanted this W more than we did tonight.
Closing out on the 3 point line. We were trying to swing the ball to the open man on a few occasions, but a Celtic was there to get a hand up after every pass.
Flops, Mr Posey clearly gave a conference or two on how to do it. Paul Pierce was in Ginobili form tonight, flinching and flying after every little bit of contact.
How many fast break points did we have tonight?

Aside, game was fun. Boston has a nice garden. Shaq is ridiculous in that bright orange jersey and i took my best friend with me and it was his first NBA game. I cant wait to beat these guys in the finals.

"Hes very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie

by Snowbird on Mar 27, 2008 1:27 AM MDT 0 recs

as texsun said above

I think the zone test instead of the man to man we played the last time we played the celtics was the biggest factor. Nash only had 1 turnover, so I wasn't upset about that. Good points on Amare, apparently the media has the idea that the other suns aren't particularly close friends with amare.
Interesting, cool you got to go.

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 27, 2008 7:56 AM MDT up 0 recs

Awful play

I turned it off in the third quarter when Posey got that 4 point play on Amare. I was angry, because it seemed like Amare made a halfhearted attempt to get his hand up on the shot and then just walked into Posey when it seemed there was plenty of time to hold up.

That second quarter was pretty good, though.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 27, 2008 6:24 AM MDT 0 recs

Another Dick Bavetta Special

What a gem. Yes, the Suns were sloppy and crapped out, but there's one play that, in my mind, sticks out above all others.

'Big Baby' Glen Davis (whom I wish the Suns had drafted and turned into a bit leaner, sleeker version of Oliver Miller) committed a series of fouls:

shoot, miss, push off (freebie), get rebound.
stay in lane for 4.5 seconds (1)
shoot, miss, throw elbow (2) get rebound, double-dribble (3) while off balance, shuffle feet around as if moonwalking (4), take three off balance steps (as if doing the triple jump) while falling out of bounds (5, throw ball to Pierce/Garnett/whomever hits a short jumper and it suddenly becomes a TERRIFIC PLAY!

A lot of what I saw reeked of the same. KG (and whichever 'center' was in at a given time) spent so much idle time (on both ends of the floor, in the paint, I was expecting 'em to lead a rousing chorus of 'kumbaya" and pass out s'mores to the the entire lower deck...

..but that's just my interpretation of what I saw. In reality, I'm sure it's a bit different...KG probably found the most special patch of green...paint inside the key, set up a tent, and Pierce lit the Coleman kerosene lantern and then proceeded to build a small camp fire. Then came the heavy beer drinking and ghost stories.

But there's one thing that's eluding me:

Did they cook hot dogs, hot links, or brauts?

What's the best wiener for a Dick Bavetta guarantee?

flim springfield

by DrStrom on Mar 27, 2008 6:41 AM MDT 0 recs

Officiating

The call on the Nash technical was a gem also. It was obvious that Steve did not commit that foul. Bavetta was actually trying to keep Nash from confronting the other ref, but Steve got the tech anyway.

We have already decided that the Suns are getting no breaks from the refs (what else is new), but blatant bad calls make you think the league has some more Tim Donaghys.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 27, 2008 8:36 AM MDT 0 recs

Refs

I only saw the 2nd half, poor me, and am assuming the technical was in the 1st half since I don't remember it in the 2nd half, but I heard on the radio that Phx got a makeup call with Big Baby right after Nash's "T". I hate makeup calls almost more than I hate blown calls. Just get it right the first time and then a makeup call isn't necessary!

by TwinnerA on Mar 27, 2008 11:06 AM MDT up 0 recs

Suns played 1 quarter, get paid for four

(I wish I could do that in my job)

You saw the wrong half. I saw the first half, specifically the second quarter, and so my stomach is in reasonably good shape. At halftime, I went out to change a flat tire I had gotten on the way home. By the time I got back, they were showing the Cleveland game I knew that was bad news, that someone got blown out, and I didn't think it was the Celtics.

This is interesting. It seems to me that the Suns don't like to play 48 minutes. Sometimes they play 36, sometimes 42, but they always take a good stretch off every game. Very irritating.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 27, 2008 11:35 AM MDT up 0 recs

hawk...thats funny

I also saw the first half but had to pause to do some work...etc. When I was about to start it up, I actually saw by accident that the suns lost badly on a website.

On the T on Nash, that was such an obvious charge (missed call) and then the T, just plan stupid. Stiff like that makes me like the nba a little bit less. Good thing I like it a lot.

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 27, 2008 11:06 PM MDT up 0 recs

Ivaroni available again?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Memphis-targets-Brown-to-replace-Iavaroni?urn=nba,73687

If they go ahead and cut him loose at the end of the season, reckon he's allowed to come back to the Suns for the playoffs?

by TexSUN on Mar 27, 2008 10:08 AM MDT 0 recs

Iavarroni

As long as he is fired, I would think the Suns could pick him up. However, The Grizz probably signed Marc for 3-5 years at $1-2 mil per year. They owe him that money, unless he quits. So it depends on the conditions of the settlement. The Grizz might pay him the whole contract in exchange for not coaching. That stipulation would be pretty mean, though, since they obviously don't think he can coach an NBA team. I don't know what the typical buyout stipulates. If I was Marc, I'd want my full money, on the other hand, if he thinks a playoff ride with the Suns can enhance his future, he may choose a lower settlement to be a free agent.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 27, 2008 11:27 AM MDT up 0 recs

Legler

I just listened to Tim Legler's interview about the West on Colin Cowherd's ESPN show (link on the Daily Dime page)...

He said that the Celtics basically provided a map of how to beat the Suns, making the extra pass and not playing in to their style... and that the Suns were likely to win a first round series, depending on who they played, but not going to come out of the West.

Really, it's going to be the other guys that do it for us. Raja didn't seem back to healthy yet, Barbosa wasn't involved in the game, and overall, we weren't inspired. I think we'll see an even more motivated Shaq come playoff time, and Amare and Steve will get theirs, but everyone else needs to come to play.

Hopefully our coaches will watch those last two games and adjust accordingly. You know the rest of the league saved their copies.

by zooropa on Mar 28, 2008 5:39 AM MDT 0 recs

Legler

I really have never liked Legler's analysis. Sometimes he over-analyzes, and sometimes he lets his bias come through. He often shows insight because he is a former player, but as far as his ability to break down a game, he is middle of the road.

I have always found it shocking how ESPN's basketball analysts always seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrell. Legler is actually one of their better ones.

The problem with the Boston game was pure and simple - offensive rebounds, and lackadaisical play. The extra pass always stands out when the other team is not hustling on defense. If the Suns were hustling, that extra pass would not yield an open shot, or be deflected. Also, the extra pass many times results in a rushed shot or a three second call.

The map on how to beat the Suns is essentially the same now as it was in Nash's first year - take advantage of their low energy stretches because they play only 7 players. And hope that they are missing their shots so you can get long rebounds for your fast break.

It hasn't changed. Analysts like Legler make me want to roll my eyes because they're always trying to uncover some brilliant analysis that nobody else has seen.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 28, 2008 6:42 AM MDT 0 recs

Right

and if the Suns win the next 4 then those analysts will be singing a different tune.

Btw - I still think playing so much zone D had a huge impact on that game.

I don't get why - but the Suns didn't play like they really wanted to win that game. Which, btw doesn't make me feel like we can't beat them if it came down to a series. Let's hope it does!

Oh, and one thing matchup-wise the C's do have is a lot of depth up front w/ Powe and Davis coming in big behind Perkins and then Posey and even PJ Brown as well.

The Suns are still not deep up front w/ only Diaw? as a backup Center and then Skinner. I really thought Marks was going to get minutes this year and by this point he would be able to come in and give you 10-15 minutes if you needed to go big but that's Coach D's biggest weakness as a coach.

He just won't play those guys during the season so they are ready for crunch time.

Phx - where grrrrr happens

by Phoenix Stan on Mar 28, 2008 8:22 AM MDT up 0 recs