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Los Suns Grind Los Spurs: 94-87!!!

In summary, this was a good win against a quality opponent. Before the game, D'Antoni said a win today against the Spurs would be "Huge" and it was!  The SUNS were down 5 with 6 minutes to go and were able to come back.  The Suns have won three grinders thus far and lost none: (Celts, Blazers, Spurs). They have lost all their games with scores over 100.



Let's begin by reviewing SRP's pregame Factors for Achieving Most Glorious Victory

Get healthy on D -
This was an improvement!  There were fewer Spurs left wide open for threes.  I counted about 3 or 4 times a shooter was left wide open for a three and no one near enough to contest the shot.  There were more, but those other threats did not result in a shot being taken.  A lot of Spurs makes were tough, contested shots.

Use the clock -
Throw the ball into the post and when they double down swing it around a few times and go back into the post again.

Absolutely.  We saw this early in the game when the suns used it's array of early half-court offensive maneuvers to get Shaq and the ball deep into the paint together.  D'Antoni has been an innovator of some of these schemes to free up players under the hoop (see X's and O's), but now these schemes are effective in getting Shaq deep position. Importantly, the suns would also need to have, and apparently do have, the passers that can deliver, in very timely fashion, the ball to a deep in the paint Shaq.  D'Antoni offensive ingenuity and SUNS skills made it happen this game.

WAKE UP -
The Suns came out with energy and played with intensity.  Further, they maintained it throughout the game.  Possibly the Spurs came out a little sluggish.  Amare was not on as sharp as he could have been.  Kurt seemed to get the better of him a little.





Now let's review SRP's Main Matchups.

Shaq vs. T-Dunkin
This first matchup turned out great for us.  Tim was frustrated the whole game, making 6 of 19 and collecting 10 rebounds. Tim Duncan had his shot blocked - three times!!! (One exclamation mark for each block on a 7-footer!)  Some of the blocks came from help defenders, but seeing both Amare and Shaq fighting in the paint together brought tears to my eyes!  Those two giant fighters in the trenches duking it out with a bunch of black and whites!  In contrast to Tim, Shaq had a monster game in his defense, poise and impacts that rippled through the other players on the court.  He was on the court for 35 minutes and I'm sure most of us would have liked to see more.

STAT vs. Ol' Crazy Eyes  
Regarding some of the matchups, credit Kurt Thomas for taking Amare out of his game.  Although Kurt didn't hurt us a lot offensively (11 pts), he drew a number of goofy fouls early on Amare.  Amare played only 32 minutes in this big-time, nationally televised game and shot just 6-17.  Most of Amare's impact was in a few shots in the late 4Q using Nash as a screen.

It was a shock to see Kurt put the ball on the floor - twice!  It was out of character because as a SUN, Kurt may have never had to dribble in a game - his job was inbound, set screen, pick-and-pop, rebound.  Look for the next game the Spurs use him that way more too and look for him to possibly hurt us a bit more with open 15-footers as we attempt to trap guys like Manu.  

Perimeter Matchups
Nash did a good job staying close enough to Bowen, as Bowen shot one open 3 in the 1Q (while Nash was on Parker, I think) and one in the 3Q, but that was just after Nash had exited the game. Nash was tough on Parker and was able to stay in front of Parker most of the time. Nash also got some good help and deserves some credit for the heavy fouls the frontline picked up.  For example, with 5:55 to go in the 4Q, Parker left Nash standing still at the top of the key.  Parker was stopped only after drawing a 5th foul on Shaq.  

Using Length late in the 4Q on Parker, now in the form of Grant Hill, continues to frustrate the Spurs PG.  

Manu was off today, despite scoring 22.  Early he was pushing too hard into the Suns improved interior defense and several times ran into brick walls, accumulating two offensive fouls and five turnovers in the process.  





Player of the game,  

Without question, today's game ball goes to Shaq, but with the caveat that just about every game ball probably should go to Nash.  D'Antoni gets an assist for changing the offensive strategy to get Shaq close to the rim.  The Suns came out early, featuring Shaq deep under tha basket and he delivered with 14 points on 6 of 11 shooting, 2 of 3 from the line and 16 rebounds.  But the key was Shaq's energy and savior-faire  which was a huge boost to Suns fandom.  We are no longer the little overachievers running around double-teaming and getting knocked on our asses and Kwame Brown steps over us for a face-in-the-crotch shot.  Those days left when an inadvertent elbow shot sends Oberto to the cut-man.  Those days left when the Suns outrebound the Spurs 57-52.  The first thing Manu noticed at half-time was that they were not getting all the second chance points their poor-shooting team needs to win.

Great Shaq plays included:

1Q: Nash cutting under the basket, feeds to Shaq, Shaq bobbles it, Nash saves it and refeeds Shaq, Shaq flushes it.  Great assist by Nash.
Edit: jasonsuns1 says this was STAT not SHAQ. Thanks jasonsuns1!
1Q Tim Duncan downs Shaq, foul on Duncan, Duncan offers hand to help up Shaq, and Shaq doesn't even acknowledge Tim's existence.
3Q: Shaq flies like Shamu out of the Sea World tank into the crowd to save a loose ball and still has enough to cleanly fly safely over a first row of two very excited kids.  Shaq-Shamu is a killer!  A killer whale on the court!
3Q: One a single defensive play, Shaq blocked/thwarted two different players and made one out-of-bounds save to get the possession.

There were numerous feeds to Shaq, rebounds and other good defensive plays.  Importantly, Shaq's effort and energy shows the Big Cactus is going to compete.  Things are looking good!




The one matchup that was not discussed is really the main story of at least the past three games.

The Suns Achilles Heel continues to ache:

The Bench problems were exacerbated by the Spurs most effective player coming in just as the Suns most effective player was coming out.  

To grossly summarize: the bench played 54.5 minutes cumulatively and in that time shot 5-for-20, got 9 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers and 16 points. Barby was in a funk and missed wide open threes repeatedly.  Boris is still traveling more on the court than off it - he was called for it twice,.  He committed all 4 TOs to go with his lone assist. I can't tell whether the issue is that he is indecisive, thinking too much on the court or just not physically strong enough to execute his plan under pressure. G-squared really should not even be criticized, playing only five minutes in his third game with the team. He was 0-for-3.  One part of the problem is that the passes from Barby and from Boris to the rest of the team are often off by just enough that the shooter has to move a lot to get the ball.  Then by the time they reset for a shot, a black-and-white is there and they are no longer open.  Or the launch a hurried shot.  Boris and Barby both need to improve their passing to open shooters.  For example in the first quarter, G-squared was wide open in the corner, Barby drove and dished to a wide open GG, but GG had to save the ball from being a turnover instead of shooting the three. The bench was also 0-5 in 3 point shooting. (Bell was 1-for-5, Nash was 2-for-2).

Boris played some decent defense, however, quickly sliding from fronting Duncan to getting behind him once Duncan got the pass. On one play, however, in the 1Q Barby and Boris had trapped Manu in the corner - it was a great trap. But then Boris dropped off on a fake and Manu had a clear path to the basket, drove, scored and drew a Boris foul to top it off.  After those shenanigans were done, what was a 3 point lead when Nash left at 9:08 was a 3 point trail at the of 1Q.  

The bench from accumulated an unscientific sum of -38 plus/minus.   All suns benchers were -8 or more plus/minus.  The Suns starters were +2 (Grant) or better than +13.  All of the Spurs starters were -6 or worse (Duncan, -23!).  With the exception of Mighty Mouse, the Spurs bench were all +6 or better (Udoka, +17!).

It's pretty clear that the bench is not cutting it.  So clear that D'Antoni uncharacteristically tightened bench play further, playing Nash 38+ minutes and Shaq 35+ in this contest.  The bench played 10 minutes less than in previous contests.  The key was playing Nash almost all the way through the 3Q to avoid a late 3Q meltdown.  By 1 minute to go, Nash was falling down all over the place and needed to be rested.  We were up by 2 when he left and only down by 1 (70-69) by the start of the 4Q.

These Suns bench weakness was also evident in the loss to the Nugs (3rd-4thQ Nash break) and Sixers (1st-2ndQ Nash break).    Dark Side:  We haven't had any solution for the past 4 years.  Bright Side: Nash really is that good.




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Retire Michael Finley

I failed to mention what a disaster Mike Finley was today.

0-6, 1 point, 2 rebounds.

Matthew Powell at Pounding the Rock would like to retire his ass and I agree.

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 9, 2008 6:07 PM MDT reply actions  

Fins
He almost killed the backboard on a couple of shots.  I actually felt sorry for him.  As a former Sun, he is harder to hate than the rest of the Spurs.  I was happy to see him get his championship.  (Not the Spurs, mind you, just Finley as an individual).
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 10, 2008 5:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

ZonaFlash
nice recap,

one comment, on shaq
on your great plays by him

"1Q: Nash cutting under the basket, feeds to Shaq, Shaq bobbles it, Nash saves it and refeeds Shaq, Shaq flushes it.  Great assist by Nash."

This was Amare, if it's the play where Nash saved the mishandled pass from going out of bounds and flipped it back to amare
(pretty sure)

Thanks

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 9, 2008 7:15 PM MDT reply actions  

Thanks for the correction!
"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 9, 2008 7:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

sure...
but, like I said (I'm not 100% sure, maybe 99)

Hey, don't tell srp or Texsun, but maybe we should have you do the recap more often, looking for superstitious things to help us.

On thing that is really good, we play denver twice, if we beat them twice, then we're 5 1/2 games ahead of being knocked out of playoffs...thats a good thing, with play like today though, I think 2 things

  1. We have a chance at a championship
  2. We have a good chance if we keep playing and improving to move back up the standings,
but, to be honest, I think I could care less about home court advantage, as long as we win the series. Some teams really seem to have great home records, we're not one of them....by great I mean like 2-3 losses the entire year at home or so

Hey, did anyone notice, or already know, when shaq dove into seats to avoid front row kids, when he hit the third row of chairs, those chairs didn't go flying, they just leaned back, then back into place, it's obvious they have those chairs ready for players diving into them, cool

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 9, 2008 7:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

Great save
That was an awesome play.  It reminded me of that play in the 05 playoffs where Nash is falling out of bounds, and he has the presence of mind to throw a bounce pass through duncan's legs to Amare for the jam.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 10, 2008 5:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nash is back
Man, this team is beginning to look exciting again! Shaq showed us once and for all why he came. Give the team some time. Remember about 'revenge'? It is still ON!
Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Mar 9, 2008 7:34 PM MDT reply actions  

Nash

like his commercial has an indomitable will to win.

He made sure we won this game with his clutch shooting, screens and passing.

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 9, 2008 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

that 3 pointer nash hit
from close to half court or so, that was awesome, and showed what kind of balls he has, between him, bell, amare and shaq. I'm starting to get very, very excited about being able to actually view on tv their remaining games!!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 9, 2008 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

When he is good
He still is the best player in the league. There's nobody, NOBODY, I would call for my team first than Nash. WHEN he's good.
Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Mar 9, 2008 7:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Great Recap
And by all means jasonsuns1 - Zonaflash can do every recap between now and the championship if that's what it takes!

Seriously though, I am thinking (but am not sure) that I speak for TexSun that we are more then open to sharing the duties wealth. If you are interested just pipe up! Pre-game threads, weekly recap, random off day posts too. Of course, TexSun is the real boss around here so you really shouldn't listen to me. But you know that already.

Great analysis on the bench play. That was certainly a point we should have won and didn't. Its kind of a funny thing isn't it. When they aren't playing well then Coach will play them less but they can't play better without playing more. Winning games now is unfortunately the priority. Hopefully, we can get some kind of slack somewhere and play more of those guys before the season ends. But that's going to be hard. At a minimum Diaw and LB can play better and they will. I just don't know if they are ever going to be consistent unless they are starters.

I also applaud Mano for coming of the bench. They really need him in that role. Mainly b/c they are such a crappy offensive team and don't have nearly the weapons that we do let alone the Lakers, Jazz, Hornets, Nuggets, Warriors or even the Rockets (but I am not buying into them yet either). Of all the WC teams they are by far the easiest to defend and are the least potent offensive team.

On the Bright Side - the Suns got open looks at the three. It wasn't as if the Spurs D was causing those misses. They just shot poorly today and that was the difference between a close game and a easy one. That and Amare missing shots that he normally makes. Combined that's at least 10 or 15 points we left on the table. Its great to see Los Suns win a grind against the Spurs but honestly, it shouldn't have been as close as it was. And that's the most positive sign I can take.

Los Spurs missed some shots too but for the most part they played their game. And lost. I am more and more convinced that this Spurs team isn't in the top three in the West anymore and I would kind of relish a first round match up with them. I know that's tempting all sorts of basketball gods but there it is. And for the record I said the same thing in my mid-season review.

The only other game related thing I noticed that wasn't covered above was Shaq slowing down as the game progressed. I was impressed with what he did give and his play in the first qtr was fantastic. And I am impressed that he played as much of the 4th as he did and was effective if not the difference maker on D.

I guess I just wonder if in a few more weeks come playoff time we will be able to get 35min of that full performance out of him. I hope so.

Oh, and contrary to what I thought earlier, Los Suns didn't give up on running the pick and roll with Shaq and using him away from the rim in addition to his usual low post self. It was pretty effective early and I don't believe resulted in any turnovers. That's big progress.

Tuesday against the Grizz. The key for that one is simple. No let down. Same intensity. Destroy.

Phx - where stuff h

by Seth Pollack on Mar 9, 2008 8:20 PM MDT reply actions  

I second that
There are 82 games in the season, plus whatever happens in the playoffs. At this time of year, I'm pretty much always up for a night "off". So, definitely let us know if you're interested in being on our unofficial "guest recap" list. That would be people we invite to do recaps when we can't, or occasionally just because want to give someone else a shot at it to pop in a fresh "voice". Hint: We tend to proactively invite those who post frequent and well-written diaries. :)

by TexSUN on Mar 9, 2008 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

good points,
especially on shaq and his minutes, I did notice his shooting looked better, guess his legs are starting to come back. Pretty exciting!! Glad to see the suns are taking some advantage of low position passing and scoring from shaq. I bet he got pretty da. excited by scoring and rebounding so much, so quickly! I think shaq had a double-double before half 10+ rebounds, 10 + points. Plus, I love marion, but having shaq in the lane makes a world of difference with parker/ginobili driving the lane, let alone how he did on his individual defense. For an older version, shaq has really brought it, still, Bell is the big difference these last 2 games, He's back and really bringing it!!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 9, 2008 8:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think it was SRP's pregame advice

I'm sure the suns staff took careful notes from it and this is why we won!
"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 10, 2008 12:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hiding Nash in plain sight
Just got back and watched the game on DVR. I see I'm behind about 200 or so comments and about a dozen or so posts. I will sort through and respond as needed tomorrow. But in the meantime, great comments and observations from ZonaFlash and others about today's game.

Seemed like we saw Nash on Parker more than ever before in this game, and for the most part - it worked! I wonder if Nash and Shaq didn't get together for a pow-wow that ended up with a strategy like this:

Nash stays close to Parker, chases him around screens and whatnot, and makes it tough as possible for as long as he can, then just lets him go, where he finds....

...The Big Dive waiting for him in the paint. (Loved that crash into the stands. That kind of energy on a consistent basis would turn me into a Shaq fan whether I want to be one or not. :) ).

Anyway, regardless, nice teamwork by Nash and Shaq  (with some help from Grant Hill in the 4th) to keep Parker to a fairly reasonable game.

BTW, speaking of Shaq+Nash, they split the plus/minus lead with +21 each. I said in a previous thread that it seemed like Nash was struggling since the trade more from Marion's absence than Shaq's presence because Nash and Marion had kind of a symbiotic thing going where each enhanced the other's strengths and covered for each other's weaknesses. It's obviously too soon to say Nash and Shaq can develop that, but there were definitely some promising signs in this game.

Well anyway, nice to get a "no caveat" win against these guys. Both teams at full strength, no back-to-back, no excuses. Just a great, hard-fought win. More, please.

by TexSUN on Mar 9, 2008 8:37 PM MDT reply actions  

yep
nice point on shaq diving, that type of energy for an older player who already has won 4 titles, that says a lot about leadership and hunger, this guy wants to win so badly! When you put him with Bell & Nash and their drive, and Amare, I'm quickly seeing them become the best 4 players on any team. Fun day!! I wish I had taped it (just starting to use my dvr)

I know I can watch it for up to 2 days off the nba.com, but the big tv is really where it's at. Whats the deal with the fox channels, is this a paid for thing like nba channel is? I believe this is the network that's carrying all season all suns games in high def, yes? How much is it? Anyone have it?

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 9, 2008 8:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

Better catch the replay on ESPN tomorrow
ABC games won't be on the NBA league pass archive if that's what you mean by watching it online. However, it looks like ESPN is going to replay it on 03/11 at 2AM central time (i.e., set your DVR tomorrow night sometime before you go to bed). The only caveat is that there will be parts of the game omitted to squeeze it into two hours.

BTW, I always DVR the games, even when I watch them live. That way I can go back and re-watch should it turn out to be a classic, or just a good game that I want to see again. Good habit to get into if your like me, i.e., geeky enough that you have nothing better to do than sit around re-watching Suns games.

by TexSUN on Mar 9, 2008 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

Los Suns
BTW, shouldn't it have been Los Sols?

by TexSUN on Mar 9, 2008 9:06 PM MDT reply actions  

hahaha
Close enough Tex!

"Los soles" vs "Las Espuelas"

Loving this win!!

by PanamaSun on Mar 9, 2008 9:26 PM MDT reply actions  

Ack!
Can't believe I did that! I know better. :) (I know just enough Spanish to be a danger to myself and others when traveling in Spanish-speaking countries. :)  ).

by TexSUN on Mar 9, 2008 9:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

In portuguese
That would be "Os sóis" e "As esporas". It sounds better in spanish... :)
Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Mar 9, 2008 9:56 PM MDT reply actions  

Wininng in spite of Caoch D
You know why Sahq seemed to slow down, srp?  He plaeyed almost the emtire third period.

Amare picked up his third fouls with 2:15 left in the 1st half (SHaq already had 3).  No Skinner for 2 minutes?  Shaq plays, risking his foruth.

Amare oickes up his fourth in the third period and Shaq played at least 8 or 9 minutes.  Why not Skinner for 4 or 5?  Shaq picked up his fourth and fifth fouls (i think his fourth was in the 3rd) b/c he was tired and did not move fast enough.

Shaq and Amare played from the six minute mark on with 5 fouls each and Shaw was gassed.  Both happened b/c Skinner didn't play.  Why not?  Is he all of the sudden not trustworthy?  

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Mar 9, 2008 10:42 PM MDT reply actions  

very good point,
also part of reason why it's hard for us to sign people, they think they won't get any playing time...and they're right

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 9, 2008 10:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

Where's The Principal?
I think that Brian is smart enough to know to make the most of his time.  Why not give him a few minutes here and there?  I don't get why he has disappeared.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 10, 2008 5:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

To top off a beautiful night,
Kobe missed the potential game winner with 5 seconds left against the Kings.  But I doubt that'll keep Barkeley and the others from hailing him as "the best closer in basketball."  

by RealTangiblesGuy on Mar 9, 2008 10:43 PM MDT reply actions  

Chuck the Mouth
Barkley needs to be useful, like go to Russia and tell Putin how to run his country.  That ought to occupy the Russians for a few years, and the collective IQ of our country will go up.  Not to mention the BMI improving.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 10, 2008 5:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

Isn't Kobe
like 7-41 on potential game-winners? I don't remember where I read that.

by rsavaj on Mar 9, 2008 11:16 PM MDT reply actions  

Either way
We gained a full game on the Lakers and that's a great way to end the day.
Phx - where sweet victory happens

by Seth Pollack on Mar 9, 2008 11:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's funny how the SA fans
Over at the other SN site blame the whole world for the losses, not their team. The Spurs score 100+ points only 20 times this season. That's half times the Suns did that. The D is getting older and slower, and unless Tim, Tony and Manu get career nights, their team is more doomed than ours...
Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Mar 10, 2008 12:07 AM MDT reply actions  

Personal Fav
My favorite comment over there was, "Amare and Shaq each had 5 fou8ls in the 4th quarter.  How come the refes didn't foul them out?"

Not, "Shaq got star treatment on this play and clearly fouled so-and-so at the 4:35 mark."

No.  Just the assumption that with 5 fouls the refs should make sure two stars leave the game.

Manu had 3 at haltime.  How come he ended the game with 3?  Why didn't the refs give him 3 more during the second half?

The more I think about the game, the more I'm impressed with Shaq's D on Duncan, too.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Mar 10, 2008 12:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

in general
it sounds as if the s.a. fans (many..not all) don't appreciate how many titles that team has won them.

I'm not even a spurs fan and I'll always respect Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. They got it done. But I think they're going to be like the mavs last year, good to great season, quick exit. Too many strong teams this yr.

Still, what a great win today, no players injured or missing on either side. Well, shaq..kind of, because I really think the shaq we're going to see in 15-20 games from now will be even better!! Which is saying a lot becuase he's really helping in many ways already. I really think Shaq's attitude has helped Bell come back. I'm surprised no one on hear is really giving much of an opinion about shaq and not taking duncan's help to get up. I think it was great, once you befriend your opponent, you simply don't play as hard, Shaq clearly cares about winning and playing his best, and he understands this. Marion never did, nor does Amare. Why do I say this, Marion laughing (7 seconds or less comment) about laying some out or getting really physical with someone. Amare stating Kobe should be mvp the year Nash won it, shaq is going to help the suns like only a few really thought would happen. At least I think we're getting closer and closer to this.

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 10, 2008 12:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Very true
My brother and I were commenting that now that Kobe "respects" Bell's defense, Bell's defense is slipping.  Sounds like Jackson-esque strategery to me.
Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Mar 10, 2008 12:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

lets hope shaq can bring the dirty
or at least toughness back into bell, from what I've seen the last 2 games from Bell, this might happen.

Nice to see shaq in at the end today and not have to see him miss a bunch of free throws. I can't ever remember being a suns fan and feeling that whomever we play in the playoffs, each round will be tough for any team (in the West). amazing really, I still think the lakers made some sort of side cash deal, there's no other explanation. The league shouldn't have allowed it. I've heard Dallas had and made a better offer for Gasol but the owner of gasol's x-team hated cuban, just adds to my thought of above

Barbosa needs to pick when he tries to score, instead of trying to score all the time

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 10, 2008 12:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

Let's see...
there are two many strong teams this year, so the one with the most experience is "going to be like the Mavs last year."  This is wishful thinking. Besides, since almost all of the Suns' player personnel moves since the 2005 WC Finals have been made in an effort to match up better with the Spurs, if the Spurs weren't around to play in the playoffs, the Suns would be pretty much lost, right? :-)  

Shaq ignoring TD's help-up was bush league, and Shaq knows it. That's why in an effort to cover up afterwards he claimed that he "didn't see Duncan." Uh-huh. TD offered a sign of respect and sportsmanship, and Shaq blew it.

by Key on Mar 10, 2008 2:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

Make that
too many strong teams...

by Key on Mar 10, 2008 3:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

spurs fan?
on duncan...morally...yes..your right it wasn't a nice thing ignoring duncan's offer for help, but, this isn't lets make friends, this is the suns fighting for their first title. I agree with what he did, you may think it was bad, but your not coming from the perspective of a team thats been so close so many times and never won, your not coming from the perspective of a team that had 2 of its players suspended because of horry's stupid actions, the game was already over and he does that, that what bothered me, Nash could've been hurt. Spurs play crooked sometimes and today you got a taste of your own medicine for the first time from us....

I predicted a mavs early exit when most were against me last year, and I predict a spurs early exit, 1st or 2nd round....you wait my friend...if I'm wrong, I'll announce it and say sorry to you, will you do the same if I'm right?

later

ps...my wife agrees with you on shaq action with duncan.. curious to hear from others on this board, wouldn't be surprised to hear many agree with you...interesting...It's one thing to not accept help, its another to possibly injure another player, bowen has done so many bad things he makes everyone else look good. Do you disagree?

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 10, 2008 3:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

I understand
what you're saying about the Shaq-TD thing, but the Suns can show their toughness during the actual course of play, as they indeed did last night. Shaq and Duncan are the two best big men of the last decade, and they have a mutual respect for each other. Shaq had a great opportunity to exhibit that respect when TD extended his hand, but for whatever reason he chose not to and that's his loss. And not only his loss, but also the fans' loss, b/c such a gesture could show that two rivals can compete really hard against each other, yet really respect each other without encouraging further bad blood. At any rate, give your wife a high-five for me for her thoughts on the subject. :-)

Concerning BB: Bruce is a tough, hard-nosed defender and most NBA players don't like it when their opponents actually makes them work hard to score. A few of them greatly respect him, such as Kobe [have you ever heard Kobe complain about the way Bowen plays?]. Sure he tries to get an edge on his opponent, but the refs are there to make sure that that 'edge' doesn't go too far. He is a great person as well. Some people try to make Bruce and Manu out to be dirty, but they are simply strong competitors, and if you had them on your team, I'm sure you would love them as well.

I'll take you up on your prediction of the Spurs' early exit, although to lose in the second round of this year's West wouldn't actually be very shameful. What do you predict for the Suns?

Thanks for your cordial response.

by Key on Mar 10, 2008 4:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Totally agree

A lot of good teams are going to lose in the second round, the first round or the regular season "qualifier".

The west is so wide open that any Suns-Spurs focus is rather limited.  As a result, I don't think there really is a Suns-Spurs rivalry anymore.  Actually, only Suns fans have seen it as a rivalry, I think Spurs fans have seen it as merely amusing.

"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 10, 2008 5:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

Key,
gave my wife the high-five for you, when you put it like you did above, I have no defense for shaq.

On Suns, boy, talk about spinning a bottle and not knowing where it'll end up. After the two big losses, and by big I mean detroit and memphis killing us. I'd guessed the Suns needed to quickly get their act together or they were going to miss the playoffs, but their last 2 games prove otherwise to me. I think the suns will make the playoffs, and get to the finals...of course this is wishful thinking because I want it to happen so badly

On pure common sense, I'd say the lakers should destroy everyone, they were getting better this year already with bynum and odom, then to get gasol, just crazy. But they're not playing their best right now and miss bynum. But still, I can't help but think they'll win it all. But, as a fan, I'm sticking with the Suns,

your absolutely right about exiting the playoffs this yr in the west, I don't think any team should feel bad with the level of competition this year, what a playoffs this will be.

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 10, 2008 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmmmm...
In their three games against the Spurs, the Suns have averaged 18 ppg less than they've averaged against the league as a whole. The Spurs once again have one of the top three defenses in the NBA. Yet you claim that the Spurs D "is getting older and slower"?

This is rich as well: unless Tim, Tony and Manu get career nights, their team is more doomed than ours... In the playoffs, the Spurs won't miss as many layups as they missed against the Suns last night. They also won't shoot 35% again.

This was the first time that the Spurs saw the "new Suns." They will adjust for the next time around, and it will be a completely different story. Of all the Western contenders, I see the Suns as actually way down the list of possible threats to the Spurs.

by Key on Mar 10, 2008 3:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

These last comments
were in response to 'Nobs' above.

by Key on Mar 10, 2008 3:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

on first time playing them...
you make a very valid point, we by no means own the spurs or anything, believe me, no one owns the spurs, not this last decade,

it's the old argument when a team loses, how much of it was a bad night vs how much of it was the other team's defense. I don't follow the spurs close enough to be the judge, I do doubt we'll have the spurs shoot such a low percentage in the next game, but, on our side of it, we (suns) were 1 for 10 from the 3 pt line at one point, and I'm very sure (once again..my opinion) that we were missing open shots, it wasn't the spurs defense that was causing us to miss, we just weren't hitting them. We're (in my view) not one of the top 5 three point shooting teams anymore, we were 2 yrs ago. I think both the spurs and the lakers are probably better three point shooters than the suns this year. But I'm really thinking of Bell and L.B, I'm skipping over Nash who actually has been doing great from the 3.

Something else, the next 4-6 games, the lakers and spurs have a tough schedule, where the next 4-6 games the suns don't. Fun in the west with it being so close, to start looking at other teams schedules, etc. I know some of the top teams are going to lose a few games here in the next 2 weeks, because they play each other (by top teams...I mean top 8 in west).

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 10, 2008 3:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yes
it should be fun. The Suns played well last night, and it will be interesting to see if they will take care of business over the next couple of weeks given how they played before the Spurs game. The final seedings should be very interesting, and all the first round matchups should be quite good.

by Key on Mar 10, 2008 4:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Blame game
Mav and Cowboy fans do the same thing, must be a Texas thing.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 10, 2008 5:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

Sick Kicks
Even though I'm still iffy on the trade, I'm absolutely deriving sick pleasure from seeing someone in a black and white jersey getting smacked around, instead of our guys. I LOVE seeing Duncan getting frustrated, and I pumped my fist seeing Shaq knock Oberto to the ground.
Playoff time will be fun.
"Act well your part: there all the honor lies"-Alexander Pope

by PurplePinoy on Mar 10, 2008 12:22 AM MDT reply actions  

I agree
if you look at the loses, the bad recent ones, they had very little with shaq playing good or bad, they had everything to do with our team not figuring things out yet and shooting poorly.

There was one thing though about the spurs game, nash got away with 2 moving picks (or 1, I forget).
I think your going to see much more 3 second calls and moving pick calls on the suns, and 3 seconds on defense calls. (The Suns looked like they were playing a loose zone in the beginning, which, when you have 1-2 weak defenders, is a good idea, as long as we can still pass it off as double teaming etc, and not get in trouble for defense 3 seconds..

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 10, 2008 12:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

Moving Picks
That is one area at which Doris excels.  So, he's got that going for him.

Nash moved Bowen into Hill's defender (I think it was Hill, maybe Barbosa) at the end of the game.  I don't know if that;s amoving pick.  Bowen didn't have to nove and Bowen picked off his own guy.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Mar 10, 2008 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

i'm hoping to tape this game tues
If I have the time, I'll try and load some quick clips from this game, but I've never been so busy with work things, so, it's unlikely

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 10, 2008 1:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

Screens
Van Gundy made the comment that little guys rarely get called for moving picks, that's why Charlie Ward was so irritating.

JVG is all over the map as an analyst.  Most of the time he is inane and silly, but sometimes some incisive comment comes through.  He is kind of like a small, irrelevant Bill Walton.  every thime I see him, I can't forget him hanging on the HHEat player's leg during the Knicks-Heat brawl in q997.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 10, 2008 6:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Surprising
This was a classic rock-'em-sock-'em battle between two heavyweight teams. Appreciate Shaq's performance! He had an incredibly active first half. Whereas he used to simply park himself on one box or the other, most of his points came after he had briskly cut across the lane or steamed to the hoop on screen-and-rolls. I have collected many things about Shaq, recently, I got one of shoes of him that I love them very much: http://dealstudio.com/searchdeals.php?deal_id=89368&ru=279 , now, I am really hoping Shaq will give us more surprising show!

by Basillouli on Mar 10, 2008 1:12 AM MDT reply actions  

Those weren't ordinary "Screen'n'Rolls"

They were "Shaq Steam'n'Rolls!"
"You can never have too many shooters." - Cotton

by ZonaFlash on Mar 10, 2008 1:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

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